Another starting problem!

horrible · 9th September 2008, 23:29

2004 Rover 75 SE Conn ---Driving home from work the other night and stopped off at the shops for 5 minutes and returned to car which wouldn't start. All lights came on OK but nothing happening after that. Engine would not turnover at all. Left it 10 minutes but just the same. Called out Breakdown but when they hadn't arrived after 2 hours tried starting and everything worked fine. This has since happened again and I wondered if it was a problem with the immobiliser so I used my spare key but it didn't make any difference.
Any suggestions please.

Dragrad · 9th September 2008, 23:45

As a matter of interest, did you turn the ignition key off just before she caught?

It's happened to me, albeit a diesel, where the car "shuts down" and does a self diagnosis, before coming up with "human error". It then restores full access to the user, ie. the driver. Iit was some 10-15 minutes before the car allowed me to restart.

Now I make sure that when I turn the key, I am firm in the action, and wait for the car to fire up properly before releasing. Only happened a couple of times, but since operating the key correctly, I've not had this problem.

barry · 10th September 2008, 00:13

Horrible

Had the first real problem with my car recently since purchase new.
First start in the morning after the car had run completely normally the previous evening - engine would not start.

All electrics still operating normally.
Figured it was a fuel or ignition problem (what else you say?).

Removed ign. key several times in case it was immobiliser etc. - no joy.

Upshot was it turned out to be the dreaded fuel filter 'auto dis-assembly'
(I think it was the filter not the pump - it wasn't made clear in the invoice).

Anyway the clip modification was fitted during rectification.

Regards
Barry

horrible · 10th September 2008, 08:11

As far as I am aware I did not do anything different when starting. When the car starts its immediate, when it won't there is nothing after the ignition comes on, no error displayed or other display.
Barry when your fault was repaired how was it diagnosed?
Cheers.

Tatts · 10th September 2008, 09:26

If you go to the Members section>Data>How To there's a guide to sorting your problems out.

The fuel module sits in the fuel tank, accessed by removing the rear seat & the access panel.

The module is in 2 halves and sometimes comes apart slightly - just enough to stop the car starting. It's happened to me and many others, it's a known pita fault.

Just hope you've not got a full tank of fuel, as it will get messy.

JohnDotCom · 10th September 2008, 09:34

Ah! The Great (or dreaded) Orange Clip Fix.

T-Cut · 10th September 2008, 10:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by horrible

Barry when your fault was repaired how was it diagnosed?

The Separated Fuel Filter Syndrome (SFFS) is pretty easy to diagnose. It only ocurrs with petrol engines, which after running normally for thousands of miles, suddenly refuse to start. The leaking filter doesn't allow petrol in sufficient volume/pressure to allow the ECU to complete the start routine. The engine turns over normally with the ignition key, but it won't fire up. The operation of the fuel pump can be heard by listening carefully when the key is turned to the 'ignition on' position. The pump is located in the fuel tank under the rear seat on the off side. A faint hum will be heard, which stops after about 4 seconds. The pump only continues running if the engine actually fires up. You can also confirm that little or no fuel is reaching the engine by checking the feed hose at the engine end. Usually, this isn't necessary because the problem is so common, it virtually diagnoses itself.

TC

horrible · 11th September 2008, 10:06

Had to call out the breakdown people again and he fixed the problem in 30 seconds by wiggling the lead to the starter motor. He explained that corrosion on the connector is a common problem (even though the car is only 4 years old) and the fix was to detach the lead and spray the connector with WD40.
I suppose the moral of the storey is always look for the obvious/simple solutions first.
Is there some KEL (known error log) where this solution can be recorded to save people wading through tons of information?.
Cheers for all the help.

kevin · 11th September 2008, 13:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by T-Cut

The Separated Fuel Filter Syndrome (SFFS) is pretty easy to diagnose. It only ocurrs with petrol engines, which after running normally for thousands of miles, suddenly refuse to start. The leaking filter doesn't allow petrol in sufficient volume/pressure to allow the ECU to complete the start routine. The engine turns over normally with the ignition key, but it won't fire up. The operation of the fuel pump can be heard by listening carefully when the key is turned to the 'ignition on' position. The pump is located in the fuel tank under the rear seat on the off side. A faint hum will be heard, which stops after about 4 seconds. The pump only continues running if the engine actually fires up. You can also confirm that little or no fuel is reaching the engine by checking the feed hose at the engine end. Usually, this isn't necessary because the problem is so common, it virtually diagnoses itself.

TC

with the the RAC man knew it would have saved him a 15 miles tow home only for me to fix it with the help of member on here.

9th September 2008, 23:29	#1
horrible Newbie Rover 75 1.8SE Conniseur Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Another starting problem! 2004 Rover 75 SE Conn ---Driving home from work the other night and stopped off at the shops for 5 minutes and returned to car which wouldn't start. All lights came on OK but nothing happening after that. Engine would not turnover at all. Left it 10 minutes but just the same. Called out Breakdown but when they hadn't arrived after 2 hours tried starting and everything worked fine. This has since happened again and I wondered if it was a problem with the immobiliser so I used my spare key but it didn't make any difference. Any suggestions please.

9th September 2008, 23:45	#2
Dragrad This is my second home *None DROWNED** Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Cardigan Posts: 33,339 Thanks: 1,257 Thanked 1,664 Times in 1,081 Posts	As a matter of interest, did you turn the ignition key off just before she caught? It's happened to me, albeit a diesel, where the car "shuts down" and does a self diagnosis, before coming up with "human error". It then restores full access to the user, ie. the driver. Iit was some 10-15 minutes before the car allowed me to restart. Now I make sure that when I turn the key, I am firm in the action, and wait for the car to fire up properly before releasing. Only happened a couple of times, but since operating the key correctly, I've not had this problem. __________________ Andrew Ich Dien Problem solving is... lateral thinking SEARCH FIRST ...ASK LATER... Last edited by Dragrad; 9th September 2008 at 23:48..

10th September 2008, 09:26	#5
Tatts This is my second home MG6 TL Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tarn Posts: 5,269 Thanks: 2 Thanked 46 Times in 37 Posts	If you go to the Members section>Data>How To there's a guide to sorting your problems out. The fuel module sits in the fuel tank, accessed by removing the rear seat & the access panel. The module is in 2 halves and sometimes comes apart slightly - just enough to stop the car starting. It's happened to me and many others, it's a known pita fault. Just hope you've not got a full tank of fuel, as it will get messy. __________________ http://www.wcgsig.com/115562.gif

10th September 2008, 00:13	#3
barry Regular poster mg zt 180 sport Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: auckland Posts: 50 Thanks: 0 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts	Horrible Had the first real problem with my car recently since purchase new. First start in the morning after the car had run completely normally the previous evening - engine would not start. All electrics still operating normally. Figured it was a fuel or ignition problem (what else you say?). Removed ign. key several times in case it was immobiliser etc. - no joy. Upshot was it turned out to be the dreaded fuel filter 'auto dis-assembly' (I think it was the filter not the pump - it wasn't made clear in the invoice). Anyway the clip modification was fitted during rectification. Regards Barry

10th September 2008, 08:11	#4
horrible Newbie Rover 75 1.8SE Conniseur Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	As far as I am aware I did not do anything different when starting. When the car starts its immediate, when it won't there is nothing after the ignition comes on, no error displayed or other display. Barry when your fault was repaired how was it diagnosed? Cheers.

10th September 2008, 09:34	#6
JohnDotCom * Rover 75 FaceLift Tourer CDTi 170BHP Auto ConnSE 2005 Model Starlight Silver Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Abergele Posts: 28,735 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Ah! The Great (or dreaded) Orange Clip Fix.

11th September 2008, 10:06	#8
horrible Newbie Rover 75 1.8SE Conniseur Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Had to call out the breakdown people again and he fixed the problem in 30 seconds by wiggling the lead to the starter motor. He explained that corrosion on the connector is a common problem (even though the car is only 4 years old) and the fix was to detach the lead and spray the connector with WD40. I suppose the moral of the storey is always look for the obvious/simple solutions first. Is there some KEL (known error log) where this solution can be recorded to save people wading through tons of information?. Cheers for all the help.