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Old 11th June 2021, 12:20   #51
Stevie25
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Originally Posted by Darcydog View Post
There is little doubt there was pressure to get a deal done - and Article 13.8 was agreed by both sides so that key items “still on the table” could be dealt with in a more leisurely manner after the key date of 24th December last year.

But instead - the EU tried to invoke Article 16 much to the dismay of everyone and resulted in an ignominious climb down by the EU.

This proved to all but the most ardent EU philes that the EU was prepared to destroy the Protocol.

It is now trying to make out that the U.K. is the “bad guy” because after absolutely NO movement from the EU re “fine tuning” the WA via 13.8 - the U.K. extended the grace period.

I do not see this as “re-writing” facts - but I can see how these facts are very inconvenient for some.


Notice my questions went unanswered- again !


Just on talk radio:
Julia Hartley-Brewer just said:

"Many worried that Northern Ireland had effectively been thrown under a bus to deliver Brexit for the rest of the UK. I, as a Brexiteer, hold my hands up to that, as a price worth paying."

Says it all really.
Much more honest than BJ saying that ‘no British Prime Minister would sign up to an Irish Sea Border’
Then did
Then denied that it existed
Now blaming the EU when they implement the ‘agreed UK/EU rules’

You couldn’t make it up !

ANYWAY THIS IS MY FINAL POST ON THIS THREAD AS CLEARLY IT WILL END UP IN THE USUAL NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD- FOR TAT.
JUST REMEMBER THAT IN THE COMING WEEKS NI WILL LIKELY BE IN THE NEWS HEADLINES, AND NOT IN A GOOD WAY.
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Old 11th June 2021, 13:24   #52
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Oh, how wonderful to see a subject on a troublesome (no pun int.) subject without rancour! Can't stop now, my Irish son-in-law is expecting me. Back later.
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Old 11th June 2021, 15:43   #53
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Originally Posted by Stevie25 View Post
Notice my questions went unanswered- again !


Just on talk radio:
Julia Hartley-Brewer just said:

"Many worried that Northern Ireland had effectively been thrown under a bus to deliver Brexit for the rest of the UK. I, as a Brexiteer, hold my hands up to that, as a price worth paying."

Says it all really.
Much more honest than BJ saying that ‘no British Prime Minister would sign up to an Irish Sea Border’
Then did
Then denied that it existed
Now blaming the EU when they implement the ‘agreed UK/EU rules’

You couldn’t make it up !

ANYWAY THIS IS MY FINAL POST ON THIS THREAD AS CLEARLY IT WILL END UP IN THE USUAL NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD- FOR TAT.
JUST REMEMBER THAT IN THE COMING WEEKS NI WILL LIKELY BE IN THE NEWS HEADLINES, AND NOT IN A GOOD WAY.
I do try my best to answer questions as best I can - I cannot help it if the answers don’t suit anybody’s else’s agenda. And I would add that it’s a tad arrogant to demand answers to questions asked when if you look - the answers are covered - just not to your liking.

And J H-B is a twit.

As for Deal/No Deal. I think a no deal WTO “deal” would have been better

But the NI protocol - and in particular the fine tuning mechanism 13.8 should have ensured a long period of joint U.K./EU work to figure out which products moving from the Three Nations to NI and vice versa where problematic for the EU.

But just 34 days after the WA was agreed - the EU tried to instigate Article 16.

And to date - as I understand it - they have never sat down across the table to sort out what’s what for the longer term as per what BOTH SIDES agreed to as set out via 13.8.

Out of nowhere the EU suddenly ignored the provisions of 13.8 whereby what specifically needed to monitored and tried to make out that the Protocol stated that ALL - EVERYTHING That moved into NI from the other three nations of the U.K. came under the protocol.

This not what was agreed and even as I write this - there are calls for the EU to be “less purist” “less hysterical”.

I don’t think you can get more hysterical than hitting the “nuclear” button 34 days after the agreement was signed - and then denying that what was actually agreed was ongoing discussions to fine tune things.

Sadly what the EU has decided to do is make a rather silly and trivial point using sausages after it failed to do the same with vaccines.

And it is not only trivial - but disingenuous as well because 13.8 , which they agreed to - would have enabled a light touch border for NI such that the Good Friday Agreement would not be compromised.

Even Ireland is now saying that the EU do not give a stuff about them. And this is not going unnoticed by other Nations/Parties.

All sides need to grow up without doubt. But we are dealing with politicians here.

Yes BJ said he would not agree to a hard border in the Irish Sea - and 13:8 proves he didn’t - but some joint U.K./EU checks would be necessary. And the scope of these checks were to be discussed.

But the EU would not come to the table and so when the U.K. extended the grace period - the EU tries to make out we are reneging on a deal.

When the reality is very different.

This is the third time now I have “answered” these points.
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Old 11th June 2021, 16:31   #54
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Just back from my personal Anglo/Irish interfamilial parley. Hope this escapes censure, it's meant as positive contribution:

This is all about the attempts at face-saving by political pygmies in Brussels. Given all the current, and growing, antipathy towards the council and its committees there is a growing unrest among many members which is ominous for their collective, in the wider sense, future.

The UK secession from the EU and subsequent pre-Covid-19 growth of UK, together with proof that the predicted suicidal cliff edge was in fact a glorious new dawn, has presented new hope for others in the EU group.

The EU see N.I. as an opportunity to flex muscle in the hopelessly impotent struggle to assert a false seniority, which of course is what the EU secession was all about in the first place. The funny side of all this is the sudden dearth of comment from previously strident ‘No’ commentators!

On the other point made earlier about immigrants not being France’s problem, well I’m afraid they very much are. Or, at least, ought to be. The French know full well that those terrified people travelling through France to the channel should have been, under EU law, refused entry into whatever was their second EU border.

The first port of call should not have given passage through to the next country on the list. And so on and so on. The French have condoned the illegal actions of the EU countries in between and actually helped immigrants to travel.

The humanity of the UK border force to save so many of these terrified people shows just how charitable we are. What an example to every country on the way from Sicily and Greece.

The EU should get over themselves and concentrate on legitimate matters of governance of their failing Commun, er, istic unity.
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Old 11th June 2021, 18:31   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie25 View Post
Notice my questions went unanswered- again !


Just on talk radio:
Julia Hartley-Brewer just said:

"Many worried that Northern Ireland had effectively been thrown under a bus to deliver Brexit for the rest of the UK. I, as a Brexiteer, hold my hands up to that, as a price worth paying."

Says it all really.
Much more honest than BJ saying that ‘no British Prime Minister would sign up to an Irish Sea Border’
Then did
Then denied that it existed
Now blaming the EU when they implement the ‘agreed UK/EU rules’

You couldn’t make it up !

ANYWAY THIS IS MY FINAL POST ON THIS THREAD AS CLEARLY IT WILL END UP IN THE USUAL NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD- FOR TAT.
JUST REMEMBER THAT IN THE COMING WEEKS NI WILL LIKELY BE IN THE NEWS HEADLINES, AND NOT IN A GOOD WAY.
It's been quiet civil and dignified - so far.
'We' were going to work through the tricky NI detail post 31st December 2020 meantime the wet border had to be accepted or it was 'No deal' - that was the strong arm stuff and I believe the UK side demonstrated the good faith that sort of compromise needs. There was a backstop though (no, not the one that got Mrs May dumped out of office), Article 16 and the post 2020 negotiated compromises/accommodations Article 13.2 would get before their final stamp of approval 4 years hence via the good people of NI. I see Mr. Macron has stated (again) earlier today that there will be no discussion nor compromise - so much for agreements then.
So if there is no movement and it's proven not to be working for NI, one side or 'tother is perfectly entitled to implement Article 16 - at any time, providing there is (internationally acceptable/recognised) reason so to do. Pres. Macron isn't the EU but he alone can spike it all with that attitude of 'goodwill', maybe his man didn't read the agreement, perhaps it wasn't French enough? No matter, if Article 16 isn't implemented the UK will and can, if necessary, support NI until 2024 and then which way do you think NI will vote?
The Republic neighbours meantime will find themselves on the thin end of the EU taxation and fishing divi wedge - talk about being thrown under a bus - poorer by at least €3Bn, being commercially shunned by the 6 Counties neigbours and one of only 5 net contributors to the EU 27 overblown exchequer, but with less of their own dosh - that's a good deal for supporting No Brexit!

Last edited by rab60bit; 11th June 2021 at 19:04..
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