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Old 14th February 2022, 23:30   #51
Borg Warner
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Travel the A14 to and from the west Midlands on a regular basis. On one journey west bound I was taking it nice and steady when I came across a loaded hgv As I gained on him he started to reduce speed due to a mild incline. Eased off the speed to allow the righthand lane to clear before pulling out to pass him, at this point we were doing around 45. As I accelerated past him, and at the crest of the incline, there was a reduce speed sign for "safety reasons" on the verge on the lefthand side just as the carrige way bent to the left and was therefore obscured by the hgv. A short distance past said sign was a camera van. I glanced at the speedo and it was showing 55 maybe 56mph. Now I've travelled this same point a number of times, both before and since, at no other time has there been anything similar. Even if the hgv had not been there I probably wouldn't have seen the sign until it was too late.

I'd got my dash cam on and if I'd received a NIP I'd have challenged it.

The A14's a lovely bit of dual carrige way, if you ain't doing 80+ in the righthand lane you've got some idiot tailgating you flashing their lights for you to get out of their way. Of course safety cameras stop all of that happening.

Last edited by Borg Warner; 14th February 2022 at 23:34..
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Old 15th February 2022, 09:09   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Borg Warner View Post
Travel the A14 to and from the west Midlands on a regular basis. On one journey west bound I was taking it nice and steady when I came across a loaded hgv As I gained on him he started to reduce speed due to a mild incline. Eased off the speed to allow the righthand lane to clear before pulling out to pass him, at this point we were doing around 45. As I accelerated past him, and at the crest of the incline, there was a reduce speed sign for "safety reasons" on the verge on the lefthand side just as the carrige way bent to the left and was therefore obscured by the hgv. A short distance past said sign was a camera van. I glanced at the speedo and it was showing 55 maybe 56mph. Now I've travelled this same point a number of times, both before and since, at no other time has there been anything similar. Even if the hgv had not been there I probably wouldn't have seen the sign until it was too late.

I'd got my dash cam on and if I'd received a NIP I'd have challenged it.

The A14's a lovely bit of dual carrige way, if you ain't doing 80+ in the righthand lane you've got some idiot tailgating you flashing their lights for you to get out of their way. Of course safety cameras stop all of that happening.
What sort of sign was it? An order, i.e a round red circle with surrounding 45 on a white background or the digital gantry signs with a red circle on a black background are, as we know, compulsory. Any speed sign in a triangle is a warning whereas in a rectangle of black numbers on various colours, they are for information.

You cannot be prosecuted for a speeding offence for the warning or information signs, however, you could be prosecuted for one or more of the careless driving offences or in a worst case scenario for causing death by dangerous driving, if your excessive speed caused an accident. The presence of a warning or advisory sign could be used as secondary evidence.
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Old 15th February 2022, 09:17   #53
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What sort of sign was it? An order, i.e a round red circle with surrounding 45 on a white background or the digital gantry signs with a red circle on a black background are, as we know, compulsory. Any speed sign in a triangle is a warning whereas in a rectangle of black numbers on various colours, they are for information.

You cannot be prosecuted for a speeding offence for the warning or information signs, however, you could be prosecuted for one or more of the careless driving offences or in a worst case scenario for causing death by dangerous driving, if your excessive speed caused an accident. The presence of a warning or advisory sign could be used as secondary evidence.
Mandatory. Hence the van.

Oh and it was showing 50. Sorry missed it off the original post.

Last edited by Borg Warner; 15th February 2022 at 09:54..
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Old 15th February 2022, 13:53   #54
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Reading through this thread, it seems to me that many people believe that camera locations, and speed limits, are carefully thought out by very clever people who know best.

This might have been the case in the past, but I believe that the situation now is quite different.
The location of speed cameras is not decided solely by police, but rather by road safety or safety camera partnerships, of which police forces are members.

An interesting article here which states:-
A Police watchdog has found that some speed cameras are being used as a means of making money rather than as a safety tool.
The report by Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary and Fire & Rescue Services (HMICFRS) found that the placement of speed cameras had often been chosen because the areas were “good hunting grounds” for speeders, rather than because they were hotspots for collisions.


Regarding speed limits, Highways England is responsible for setting speed limits on motorways and the trunk road network in England, while roads not covered by Highways England are the responsibility of the local highways authority.
This does not inspire me with confidence when I see all of the incorrect road marking and signage errors in my county.

Yes, I do agree that some cameras serve a good purpose, however, quite clearly, not all.
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Old 15th February 2022, 14:22   #55
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Mandatory. Hence the van.

Oh and it was showing 50. Sorry missed it off the original post.
Generally most forces allow 10% + 2 miles an hour. If you were still in the West Midlands, they won't publicise the tolerance, but this will give you some idea:

https://www.confused.com/car-insuran...era-tolerances
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Old 15th February 2022, 14:53   #56
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We often complain about the lack of visible law enforcement, yet are happy to accept tucked away speed cameras. Complain about the confused guidance from government (especially over the last couple of years of so) yet willingly accept the willy-nilly application of the speed camera. Sorry safety camera.

If there is an issue with safety on a section of road, then there needs to be a permanent and consistent solution applied, not one that seems to be there if there is an "R" in the month.
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Old 15th February 2022, 17:03   #57
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Generally most forces allow 10% + 2 miles an hour. If you were still in the West Midlands, they won't publicise the tolerance, but this will give you some idea:

https://www.confused.com/car-insuran...era-tolerances
Just remember those are merely guidelines issued by ACPO many years ago. They are not law and are not a defence.
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Old 15th February 2022, 17:08   #58
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Another nice little earner which councils DO keep.I don't believe the majorityof these 'offenders' deliberately used a bus lane.Far more likely they were not familiar with the road layout.It happened to me in Nottingham a couple of years ago,I accidently found myself in a bus lane,and received a fine,it's very easily done in a big busy city which you don't know well.Of course there are a few who have no respect for laws of the road but by enlarge I believe drivers try to do the right thing most of the time.
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Old 15th February 2022, 17:38   #59
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Another nice little earner which councils DO keep.I don't believe the majorityof these 'offenders' deliberately used a bus lane.Far more likely they were not familiar with the road layout.It happened to me in Nottingham a couple of years ago,I accidently found myself in a bus lane,and received a fine,it's very easily done in a big busy city which you don't know well.Of course there are a few who have no respect for laws of the road but by enlarge I believe drivers try to do the right thing most of the time.
If there were no signs for the bus lane you should have challenged it. If there were signs and you missed them I'm afraid it's down to you. Being unfamiliar with a location is no defence as the signage is pretty standard throughout the UK. Not having a dig at you
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Old 15th February 2022, 17:39   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VVC-Geeza View Post
Another nice little earner which councils DO keep.I don't believe the majorityof these 'offenders' deliberately used a bus lane.Far more likely they were not familiar with the road layout.It happened to me in Nottingham a couple of years ago,I accidently found myself in a bus lane,and received a fine,it's very easily done in a big busy city which you don't know well.Of course there are a few who have no respect for laws of the road but by enlarge I believe drivers try to do the right thing most of the time.

looking at the picture on the link you provide, driving without due care and attention springs to mind.
If we dont know the road layout and we get it wrong, is that our fault or the fault of the road makings and signage?

you describe it as a nice little earner, the article says "Almost 2,5000 fines were issued to drivers for illegally driving through a bus lane on Phoenix Street" nice little earner or necessity?

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