Go Back   The 75 and ZT Owners Club Forums > The 75 and ZT Owners Club Forums > Technical Help Forum
Register FAQ Image Gallery Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read
Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 1st December 2019, 17:50   #51
T-Cut
This is my second home
 
Rover75 and Mreg Corsa.

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sumweer onat mote o'dust (Sagin)
Posts: 21,751
Thanks: 341
Thanked 3,660 Times in 2,924 Posts
Default

Around the time he married Britt Eckland, he had a Hooper customised mini Cooper with cane basketwork on the doors.



Cane doors quicky became the must-have for mini pwners. I also had a Cooper at the time, but my canewaving skills were not good.



TC
T-Cut is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd December 2019, 08:53   #52
SD1too
Doesn't do things by halves
 
SD1too's Avatar
 
Rover 75 2.5 Connoisseur Auto (1999) Dealer launch model.

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Former Middlesex
Posts: 20,265
Thanks: 1,587
Thanked 3,749 Times in 3,181 Posts
Default Your questions Jim

Quote:
Originally Posted by skinnyL View Post
Do I need the oil cooler up and working.
Yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by skinnyL View Post
Do you think I should replace the thermostat and temperature sensor again.
According to your temperature readings, both digital and using the gauge, your thermostat is not functioning properly. Can you trust your garage to have followed the MGR refilling and bleeding procedure correctly when your oil cooler has been damaged in their hands? I'd suggest that you cannot. Once the possibility of an airlock has been ruled out then the evidence points to the thermostat. As you say this is new, it raises the possibility that the second-hand engine you have had fitted could have been contaminated with K-Seal. Here's my earlier post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by SD1too View Post
... it's rare for a KV6 thermostat to fail in this way. I hope that your second-hand engine hasn't had K-Seal put into it.
I see no evidence that your temperature sender is faulty.

Simon
__________________
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble."
Sir Henry Royce.
SD1too is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd December 2019, 11:04   #53
clf
This is my second home
 
clf's Avatar
 
MG ZT CDTi

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: carrick
Posts: 7,859
Thanks: 3,494
Thanked 2,657 Times in 1,973 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SD1too View Post
Yes.



According to your temperature readings, both digital and using the gauge, your thermostat is not functioning properly. Can you trust your garage to have followed the MGR refilling and bleeding procedure correctly when your oil cooler has been damaged in their hands? I'd suggest that you cannot. Once the possibility of an airlock has been ruled out then the evidence points to the thermostat. As you say this is new, it raises the possibility that the second-hand engine you have had fitted could have been contaminated with K-Seal. Here's my earlier post:





I see no evidence that your temperature sender is faulty.



Simon
Simon, you have come to these conclusions without full data. Whilst my car is a diesel, the principle will still apply. I can drive my car for 10 miles continuously and the temperature will not exceed 72 degrees, with an ambient temperature of 11. By your reckoning, my thermostat is faulty. I can tell you it isn't. What you do not account for (again) is driving style/situation and consideration of the heater being used.



Sent from my SM-A600FN using Tapatalk
__________________


It is not gloss primer .............. it is duct tape silver!
clf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd December 2019, 11:32   #54
SD1too
Doesn't do things by halves
 
SD1too's Avatar
 
Rover 75 2.5 Connoisseur Auto (1999) Dealer launch model.

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Former Middlesex
Posts: 20,265
Thanks: 1,587
Thanked 3,749 Times in 3,181 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by clf View Post
Whilst my car is a diesel ...
Hello again Alan,

It seems to be generally accepted that diesels produce much less heat than petrol engines. You say that your coolant reaches only 72 degrees so a functioning standard 88 degree thermostat is never going to open on your engine. So no, I would not suggest that your thermostat is faulty.

I am indeed taking Jim's "driving style/situation" into consideration. He reported low coolant temperature at motorway speeds in November's climate. That indicates over-cooling and that can happen only if the thermostat is faulty.

For many reasons I am not convinced that use of the heater has a significant effect upon coolant temperature. i know that you and others will disagree with this.

I'd rather not become involved in a debate about the diesel when what we need to be concentrating our minds upon is the KV6 of which I do have relevant practical experience.

Simon
__________________
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble."
Sir Henry Royce.
SD1too is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd December 2019, 11:42   #55
clf
This is my second home
 
clf's Avatar
 
MG ZT CDTi

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: carrick
Posts: 7,859
Thanks: 3,494
Thanked 2,657 Times in 1,973 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SD1too View Post
Hello again Alan,



It seems to be generally accepted that diesels produce much less heat than petrol engines. You say that your coolant reaches only 72 degrees so a functioning standard 88 degree thermostat is never going to open on your engine. So no, I would not suggest that your thermostat is faulty.



I am indeed taking Jim's "driving style/situation" into consideration. He reported low coolant temperature at motorway speeds in November's climate. That indicates over-cooling and that can happen only if the thermostat is faulty.



For many reasons I am not convinced that use of the heater has a significant effect upon coolant temperature. i know that you and others will disagree with this.



I'd rather not become involved in a debate about the diesel when what we need to be concentrating our minds upon is the KV6 of which I do have relevant practical experience.



Simon
Limited to your own vehicle.

I only mention my own being a diesel before you suggest it being a factor. I ha e owned petrol vehicles and different diesels over the years, but the laws of thermodynamics and physics apply equally to them all. Simple observation of the temperatures during heater use will suggest a slower warm up time.

I will go back through the post to find the motorway speed reference. How long was this journey for etc?

Sent from my SM-A600FN using Tapatalk
__________________


It is not gloss primer .............. it is duct tape silver!
clf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd December 2019, 11:56   #56
SD1too
Doesn't do things by halves
 
SD1too's Avatar
 
Rover 75 2.5 Connoisseur Auto (1999) Dealer launch model.

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Former Middlesex
Posts: 20,265
Thanks: 1,587
Thanked 3,749 Times in 3,181 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by clf View Post
I will go back through the post to find the motorway speed reference.
Post no. 39.

Simon
__________________
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble."
Sir Henry Royce.
SD1too is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd December 2019, 13:09   #57
clf
This is my second home
 
clf's Avatar
 
MG ZT CDTi

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: carrick
Posts: 7,859
Thanks: 3,494
Thanked 2,657 Times in 1,973 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SD1too View Post
Post no. 39.



Simon
That is a momentary reference with no background. Any remote diagnosis based on that is foolish.

There is no data to base a diagnosis on! After a further 5 miles at 70 miles per hour I would expect it to rise, a lot if going up hill towing a caravan, a little if driving unloaded, on a level with the heating fan on full blast at 25 degrees. There is no background either of the journey prior to this reading either.

Your diagnosis is still supposition without further Information.

To the OP, do nothing until you either have is diagnosed correctly, or add further data. You may be spending cash unnecessarily, and also running the risk of introducing problems that do not exist.

Sent from my SM-A600FN using Tapatalk
__________________


It is not gloss primer .............. it is duct tape silver!
clf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd December 2019, 16:00   #58
clf
This is my second home
 
clf's Avatar
 
MG ZT CDTi

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: carrick
Posts: 7,859
Thanks: 3,494
Thanked 2,657 Times in 1,973 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SD1too View Post
Post no. 39.



Simon
Posts 25 and 33 (or 34) are more relevant.

Post 25 mentions the temp at 83-84 degrees and stable, with no load and idling that would be as normal as one could expect surely, particularly if fresh coolant was used?

Post 33/34 mentions 'econ on or so I thought'. Means the heating was on, therefore drawing heat away from the engine, even over a 50 mile drive I would suggest this has the potential to draw the temp down by 5 to 10 % (based on my own current car as well as every car I've had in the past). It definitely slows the warm up time. If the econ was in fact off, as there appears to be doubt, the rad fan operation too, will reduce the coolant temp.

Sent from my SM-A600FN using Tapatalk
__________________


It is not gloss primer .............. it is duct tape silver!
clf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd December 2019, 16:26   #59
SD1too
Doesn't do things by halves
 
SD1too's Avatar
 
Rover 75 2.5 Connoisseur Auto (1999) Dealer launch model.

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Former Middlesex
Posts: 20,265
Thanks: 1,587
Thanked 3,749 Times in 3,181 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by clf View Post
That is a momentary reference with no background ... There is no data to base a diagnosis on!
In post no. 33 Jim gives more detail which may be of interest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by clf View Post
After a further 5 miles at 70 miles per hour I would expect it to rise, a lot if going up hill towing a caravan, a little if driving unloaded ...
Alan; I think you're allowing your familiarity with the diesel engine to colour your judgement. None of the factors you mention affect the warm-up time of the KV6 to any material degree. It will produce enough heat to open the thermostat over about a couple of miles. If it is cooled to 88 degrees, by whatever means, the thermostat will close again. It's a regulatory device which prevents the temperature dipping to the values which Jim has reported. There is only one reason for that and it's not supposition.

Simon
__________________
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble."
Sir Henry Royce.

Last edited by SD1too; 2nd December 2019 at 16:28..
SD1too is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd December 2019, 16:36   #60
SD1too
Doesn't do things by halves
 
SD1too's Avatar
 
Rover 75 2.5 Connoisseur Auto (1999) Dealer launch model.

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Former Middlesex
Posts: 20,265
Thanks: 1,587
Thanked 3,749 Times in 3,181 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by clf View Post
Post 33/34 mentions 'econ on or so I thought'. Means the heating was on, therefore drawing heat away from the engine ...
Not by a factor which would keep the coolant below the opening temperature of the thermostat! The heat loss through the matrix is minuscule compared with that generated and dispersed by the radiator and its fan.

Simon
__________________
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble."
Sir Henry Royce.
SD1too is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 19:46.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright © 2006-2023, The Rover 75 & MG ZT Owners Club Ltd