Wishbone Help

[SD1too]

Originally Posted by Arctic

Hi Billy.
Most likely after your two day of reading all the little spats of how to undo and what to use to undo the two bolts, you may have not found time to sort them out please let us know how you are getting on.

Hi Billy,

I echo Steve's words. I'm sorry about the diversion but the points raised needed an answer.

How are you getting on? Do let us know either here or by PM.

Simon

[Mike Noc]

Yes apologies for the diversions Billy but when people spout nonsense on the forum it needs addressing.

Originally Posted by SD1too

[*]A torque wrench is safer because it's designed to disconnect the applied force at the chosen setting.

Absolute nonsense! It doesn't do anything of the sort. Imagine how dangerous it would be if it did.

All a torque wrench does is give you an indication when you reach the desired torque.

Originally Posted by SD1too

[*][*]Norbar, who manufacture, repair and recalibrate torque wrenches, publicly state that they can be used for releasing tasks.

No one is disputing this, but if you ask Norbar what their wrenches are designed to do they will tell you it is to accurately determine the torque when tightening fasteners.

Originally Posted by SD1too

By asking these questions Steve you're giving the impression that you have little experience of torque wrenches. They're not mysterious things to be feared and left on the shelf in preference to a crude and uncontrolled "breaker bar". When you try this job for yourself, why not see how much better a torque wrench is?

Yet more nonsense. You don't need a torque wrench to know the limit of what force to put on a bolt when undoing it - you do it by feel, and control the breaker bar as you would any other tool. If you think a breaker bar is crude I'd dread to think what you would make of flogging spanners and sledge hammers.

Originally Posted by COLVERT

My thoughts on it.

If a bolt is super tight as long as you can set the torque wrench to a figure higher than the normal force required to tighten the said bolt nothing will break.---The torque wrench will let you know when to stop pulling by clicking.---However if you try to continue past that point then it's possible to cause all sorts of damage. To you, the bolt and even the torque wrench.-( this paragraph about undoing a seized bolt )

I believe it to be true that a torque wrench ratchet will be designed to work safely up to the wrenches rated capacity. ( I think this was the point that Simon was trying to make. )

Originally Posted by SD1too

Thank you Jon! At last some sense prevails. Mike and Steve please take note!

Simon

Jon, I'm not disputing that at all, but as I said above torque wrenches are designed to tighten fasteners and breaker bars to undo stubborn ones, and it is good engineering practice to use the tool that is designed for the job in hand.

Of course we will never convince Simon of this and he is free to work on his car as he sees fit.

[Ducati750cc]

A torque wrench is safer because it's designed to disconnect the applied force at the chosen setting.

Nope, a torque wrench is designed to indicate, by various means, when the set torque has been reached, that's all, there are only a couple of ways the applied force is disconnected, or released.



One is when the operator releases the force in a controlled and safe manner.


The second is when through tool malfunction, fastener breakage etc, or the wrench was designed to disconnect, ( but these wrenches don't exist ) the applied force.


Disconnecting the force in any of these ways would have potentially damaging consequences to the operator and whatever he is working on.

[COLVERT]

Originally Posted by SD1too View Post[*]A torque wrench is safer because it's designed to disconnect the applied force at the chosen setting.
Mike Noc.---Absolute nonsense! It doesn't do anything of the sort. Imagine how dangerous it would be if it did.

All a torque wrench does is give you an indication when you reach the desired torque.

I believe I can see the misunderstanding here.--It seems to be simply the choice of words.

I believe Simon to mean you stop pulling when the wrench clicks.-The applied force being your arm.

The second sentence by mike is absolutely correct.

I try not to be biased in any way with any comments I make as these are simply based on my own experience of 65 years of mainly engineering experience.---Just my opinions which are up there to be shot at.

The first 5 years of my working life were occupied as an apprenticed tool-maker.-I had around 6 months training on each of the machines in the tool room.--I tended to remain in engineering after my apprenticeship by becoming a draughtsman and remained there for maybe 15 years before deciding to have a complete change in my working life.

I sense that sometimes folks in these threads like to have the occasional shot at one another.--As long as it's not personal it adds spice to a thread.

Also it makes you think that there's definitely more than one way to skin a cat.---Lol.

[SD1too]

Originally Posted by Mike Noc

All a torque wrench does is give you an indication when you reach the desired torque.

Originally Posted by Ducati750cc

... a torque wrench is designed to indicate, by various means, when the set torque has been reached, that's all ...

OK, I accept that I should not have used the word "disconnect". I will amend my original post.

Originally Posted by Mike Noc

... as I said above torque wrenches are designed to tighten fasteners
...

There is no difference between tightening a left-hand thread and releasing a right-hand thread. Therefore torque wrenches are designed for either.

Simon

[BillyMG]

My my, I've never started such a popular thread! Who'd have known there could be such debate over a big pole / precision instrument lol

I've got her booked in at the garage next Friday but I'm hoping I can get some time before then to get her jacked up again. I've bought a set of offset ring spanners (been needing some for a long time) and the 18mm looks like it will slot onto that front subframe bolt with enough angle and clearance for me to hook on another or better yet get my 5ft steel pole on there.

As it happens the wishbone I bought last Thursday with 48h delivery still hasn't turned up...

Thanks for all the replies anyway - nice to see a good spirited and lively debate!

[Mike Noc]

Originally Posted by SD1too

There is no difference between tightening a left-hand thread and releasing a right-hand thread. Therefore torque wrenches are designed for either.

Simon

Oh yes there is. When you tighten something you use a torque wrench to arrive at the correct torque. When you are undoing something you don't need to know the tightness of it - it is completely irrelevant.
Whilst torque wrenches can do either, they are designed specifically for tightening fasteners or checking that they are tight.

A quote from Norbar's website:

Norbar
Dedicated specialists: Norbar is devoted exclusively to the design, development and production of torque tightening and measuring equipment.

[SD1too]

Originally Posted by Mike Noc

Whilst torque wrenches can do either, they are designed specifically for tightening fasteners or checking that they are tight.

All right Mike, as you wish to be pedantic, yes they are "designed" for tightening fasteners.

Simon

[TourerSteve]

Originally Posted by BillyRover

My my, I've never started such a popular thread! Who'd have known there could be such debate over a big pole / precision instrument lol

I've got her booked in at the garage next Friday but I'm hoping I can get some time before then to get her jacked up again. I've bought a set of offset ring spanners (been needing some for a long time) and the 18mm looks like it will slot onto that front subframe bolt with enough angle and clearance for me to hook on another or better yet get my 5ft steel pole on there.

As it happens the wishbone I bought last Thursday with 48h delivery still hasn't turned up...

Thanks for all the replies anyway - nice to see a good spirited and lively debate!

Keep following Artic's pictorial you wont go far wrong !

[TourerSteve]

Originally Posted by SD1too

By asking these questions Steve you're giving the impression that you have little experience of torque wrenches. They're not mysterious things to be feared and left on the shelf in preference to a crude and uncontrolled "breaker bar". When you try this job for yourself, why not see how much better a torque wrench is?

Simon

With my Mechanical experience I'm still not buying into using a torque wench to undo bolts when I have a perfectly good Strong arm / Breaker bar to carry out the task they are designed to do! !
I never asked any questions to give any impression's ' but while I don't feel I have to justify my Mechanical competence ,take it from me I am well competent at torqueing