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Old 4th October 2021, 10:03   #21
AndyN01
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Perhaps slightly off topic but I'm all for a full and total repayment of the cost to the Public Purse. S

Every penny of the costs from the second an incident is reported through the investigation, forensics, trial, sentence and ongoing board and lodge at Her Majesty's pleasure & all the associated admin is paid for by the guilty.

So, all the stuff about lack of resources vanishes and the really big players can be chased in the knowledge that the costs will be covered if found guilty.

Once all their assets have gone then maybe they could "Work" to pay their debt to society?

I reckon that knowing that you could lose every penny of your criminal lifestyle would be one serious deterrent.
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Old 4th October 2021, 16:23   #22
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Perhaps slightly off topic but I'm all for a full and total repayment of the cost to the Public Purse. S

Every penny of the costs from the second an incident is reported through the investigation, forensics, trial, sentence and ongoing board and lodge at Her Majesty's pleasure & all the associated admin is paid for by the guilty.

So, all the stuff about lack of resources vanishes and the really big players can be chased in the knowledge that the costs will be covered if found guilty.

Once all their assets have gone then maybe they could "Work" to pay their debt to society?

I reckon that knowing that you could lose every penny of your criminal lifestyle would be one serious deterrent.

consider what you have said and apply it to the post office post masters that were charged with I think, fraud, found guilty and yet years later proven to be innocent. Do you still think your suggestion is appropriate? Don't think I disagree with you as in principle I do but the case I refer to shows how wrong we would both be.

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Old 4th October 2021, 17:31   #23
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consider what you have said and apply it to the post office post masters that were charged with I think, fraud, found guilty and yet years later proven to be innocent. Do you still think your suggestion is appropriate? Don't think I disagree with you as in principle I do but the case I refer to shows how wrong we would both be.

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That is indeed the crux of the matter. We've all witnessed how the justice system works, and it is very far from perfect, and often gets things wrong. The Post office debacle is an excellent example, and those that repeatedly drove prosecutions in that saga should hang their heads in shame. That reality is the one thing which stops me from voting for the death penalty and other harsh punishments. In principle, I'd certainly like to see the worst offenders like the murderer of poor Sarah taken around to the local military base and used for target practice by Her Majesty's armed forces, but we'd have to be certain beyond all doubt we had the right perp!
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Old 4th October 2021, 18:32   #24
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consider what you have said and apply it to the post office post masters that were charged with I think, fraud, found guilty and yet years later proven to be innocent. Do you still think your suggestion is appropriate? Don't think I disagree with you as in principle I do but the case I refer to shows how wrong we would both be.

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Thanks for your thought provoking comment.

Yes, totally accepted that things can and do go wrong. Perhaps it could be something to be available to the judiciary on sentencing. I was thinking more of the really big criminals with really big money - drugs barons etc. and/or the big corporations who know that the resources to did and dig and dig simply aren't going to be made available to thoroughly investigate them.
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Old 4th October 2021, 20:38   #25
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Thanks for your thought provoking comment.

Yes, totally accepted that things can and do go wrong. Perhaps it could be something to be available to the judiciary on sentencing. I was thinking more of the really big criminals with really big money - drugs barons etc. and/or the big corporations who know that the resources to did and dig and dig simply aren't going to be made available to thoroughly investigate them.
I think some cases are easier to prove then others, with the post office I am not convinced evidence that could be touched, seen or smelt was there. It was, the money is missing and they took it.

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Old 5th October 2021, 22:07   #26
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in areas such as the big cities where every dark alley or sideroad are host to drug takers , murderers, rapists, thieves , and youths brandishing knives, is it not time to resort to the old style of policework ? boots on the ground seems to be a thing of the past. you cannot police a community behind a windscreen. this is not the answer to all evils , but its a start. there are calls for a complete re vetting of all officers , but im afraid that it will either not happen or if it does , it wont be done properly. i bet a good 20% would be sacked. its just so sad for the genuine honest members of the force that are decent and trustworthy , as im afraid most will be tarred with the same brush. no one is going to tell me that moving up through the ranks to become senior officers or indeed head of the met, did not know about the predudice , racism, sexist culture that exists. the met has always been a secret society that has its own laws and still carries on regardless. looking back through history , from its initiation and past records throughout its history confirms this... nothing is going to change sadly.
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Old 6th October 2021, 17:51   #27
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Going off topic a bit now with personal opinions coming to the fore. We all have opinions and some are even based on genuine knowledge.
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Old 6th October 2021, 20:16   #28
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Going off topic a bit now with personal opinions coming to the fore. We all have opinions and some are even based on genuine knowledge.
To be fair, opinion is what the OP sought. Perhaps only on-topic I agree.

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but should women be more scared of the police following the Sarah Everard incident?

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Ian - I will answer your question. I think women should be more cautious of a police officer making an arrest on their own. Equally, I don't believe that any decent police officer, which is the majority, would wish to put a woman in a situation that leads to a state of fear after what has occurred.

It is a bit like finding yourself walking behind a female on their own say in the evening or on a street alone. A decent man will always slow down, stop to look in shop windows etc. just to create that safe physical space.

So heightened awareness all around is what is needed as opposed to fear.
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Old 6th October 2021, 20:31   #29
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To be fair, opinion is what the OP sought. Perhaps only on-topic I agree.



Ian - I will answer your question. I think women should be more cautious of a police officer making an arrest on their own. Equally, I don't believe that any decent police officer, which is the majority, would wish to put a woman in a situation that leads to a state of fear after what has occurred.

It is a bit like finding yourself walking behind a female on their own say in the evening or on a street alone. A decent man will always slow down, stop to look in shop windows etc. just to create that safe physical space.

So heightened awareness all around is what is needed as opposed to fear.
taking this part "I think women should be more cautious of a police officer making an arrest on their own." I find that really disappointing but looking at the stats I referred to women should "fear" men all the time.

Going back some 40 years ago I recall urging a women not to get into some blokes car as I was concerned for her safety. I was on my motorbike so could not give her a lift. I think all was ok.


I hope lone male police officers understand that women may now have a concern and act accordingly what ever that is. I'll have to ask my son in law if he has been given any guidance or has any appreciation that the fear may be there.

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Old 7th October 2021, 12:47   #30
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It depends on the situation to an extent but arrests of women were if possible done by two officers whether both male or one of each. The reason being to guard the officer against the malicious allegations of sexual assaults. I dont know what policy is at this time. And the opinion of women is something we cannot know,but wont be positive for some. Off line a bit but from what Ive picked up via press and others sources Couzins was not a fully trained Constable but a static armed guard with minimal Police training. He joined in 2018,ex military and quite old 40ish.so with less than 4 years service. Normally 4 years Constable is only just beginning to usefully experienced. I think the Home Office should have questions to be asked regarding all recruiting and training policy. They set the parameters. Chris.S.
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