JagFire

[SteveThackery]

Originally Posted by daveo138

It would definitely be interesting to know what the dealer said about the issue the first time it happened.

My own experience of modern cars and main dealers is disappointing, to say the least. If the OB diagnostics don’t tell them anything, they haven’t got a clue, it would seem.

Yes, totally. To be fair to the dealer (but not Jaguar), they are definitely not equipped to investigate an incident like this; not remotely. All they can do is (presumably) what they did: interrogate the OBD2 for error reports, and physically inspect for misplaced carpet mats, etc. In the absence of any indication of a fault, they really can't do anything more.

This isn't really the dealer's fault. The reliance on software diagnostics is a decision by the manufacturer, not the dealers. You can be sure there's no technical support for the dealer to investigate a fault which Jaguar consider impossible, and for which there is no trace on the OBD2 diagnostics. Jaguar would consider it a wild goose chase where there probably isn't even a goose.

The "dumbing down" of the technicians is very much the fault of the manufacturers, who have taken away the tools, training and support that used to be available and handed the whole thing over to the software engineers.

[wraymond]

All very well Steve. But although the dealer and the manufacturer were unable to identify a fault they were unable to diagnose the car was returned to the owner with the same pre-breakdown possibility. I would have thought alarm bells were ringing rather loudly. The owner should be 'consulting'. And those at Jaguar should be considering their position.

[SteveThackery]

Originally Posted by wraymond

All very well Steve. But although the dealer and the manufacturer were unable to identify a fault they were unable to diagnose the car was returned to the owner with the same pre-breakdown possibility. I would have thought alarm bells were ringing rather loudly. The owner should be 'consulting'. And those at Jaguar should be considering their position.

I don't disagree. I'm just trying to see all sides. I can imagine a conversation along the lines of:

Dealer: "We need help to diagnose an iPace that the owner says ran away."

Jaguar: "That's obviously impossible. Can't happen - too many fail-safes. What fault codes did you find?"

Dealer: "None."

Jaguar: "Thought not. Have you checked there's nothing obstructing the throttle, and checked the operation of the brakes?"

Dealer: "Yep - it all looks fine."

Jaguar: "Well, there's nothing more either of us can do. And anyway, it's basically impossible for anything like this to happen. We think he might be pulling a fast one. Tell him to get back to us if he has any more problems."

I'm not defending the dealer or Jaguar. I'm just saying that there's very little the dealer can do, and the "That's impossible" mindset in Jaguar would most likely have led them to dismiss it until they start getting multiple reports.

Ideally the dealer should have dug their heels in, but they've got no proof anything even happened apart from a verbal account from one guy. They have no power over Jaguar.

[wraymond]

I follow all that Steve. What about imagination being one thing but actualite^ being quite another!

I would think that the threat of a possible legal action would have created a rather different reaction to one’s imagination. I think that the dealer might have taken legal advice though. They must have been sure of their ground.

[SteveThackery]

Originally Posted by wraymond

I follow all that Steve. What about imagination being one thing but actualite^ being quite another!

I would think that the threat of a possible legal action would have created a rather different reaction to one’s imagination. I think that the dealer might have taken legal advice though. They must have been sure of their ground.

I don't know - neither of us do - but I doubt the dealer was worried about legal action. Why would they be? They checked the car over using the official test procedures* and found nothing wrong. At that point they have met their legal obligations. If we assume they asked Jaguar for advice and were advised to return the car, then legally they are armour plated.

*(I'm assuming they used the official test procedures - no reason they wouldn't.)

My first reaction to hearing this story was "b u l l * * * * - it can't happen; too many things have to fail simultaneously and the odds are so vanishingly small as to be inconceivable". You can bet that was the dealer's reaction and Jaguar's reaction. I'm not in the slightest bit surprised it was returned and dismissed as a flight of attention-seeking fancy.

I'm not defending Jaguar, I'm just saying I'm not at all surprised it flew below the radar the first time it happened.

For what it's worth, I'm still slightly suspicious about the whole thing and have a feeling we haven't got the full story. I find the whole thing mightily intriguing.

[bl52krz]

Hi Dave and Steve. I apologise . You are correct about the steering lock not coming on until you remove the key. Put it down to my age, or not having been in the position to try it out. I still think that there are probably more instances of those kind of things happening than we are led to believe.I believe that at least two ships have been set on fire by one of these electric abomination’s. The last one had a load of Mercedes cars on it. They have also affected my continental travels to, not only see my son in Germany, but also nice long drives down to Loire area. The reason being, we only travel by shuttle because my wife can not travel by ship or fly because of menieres. I will not go by shuttle now because to be honest, I can see an electric car causing a fire on the shuttle, and I don’t want to kick the bucket yet thank you. Shame really. It might never happen, but if it does, I don’t want to be there when it happens.Its called self preservation. And Steve, from your post above, you seem an ideal candidate for a conspiracy theorist.

[SteveThackery]

Originally Posted by bl52krz

And Steve, from your post above, you seem an ideal candidate for a conspiracy theorist.

Really? You're joking! I'm the most anti-conspiracy theorist I know. My imagined account of what I suspect happened is the very opposite of a conspiracy. What I described was incompetence based on a fixed mindset of "It can't happen".

If you are referring to my last comment about being suspicious about the whole thing, I don't think there's any conspiracy at all. I just think we haven't got all the story. It does seem such a remarkable sequence of events, I think a little residual scepticism is reasonable. That has nothing to do with conspiracies.

So no, I reject your characterisation.

[SteveThackery]

Originally Posted by bl52krz

I still think that there are probably more instances of those kind of things happening than we are led to believe..

Now there's a conspiracy theory if ever there was!

Originally Posted by bl52krz

I believe that at least two ships have been set on fire by one of these electric abomination’s. The last one had a load of Mercedes cars on it.

(......)

I will not go by shuttle now because to be honest, I can see an electric car causing a fire on the shuttle, and I don’t want to kick the bucket yet thank you. Shame really. It might never happen, but if it does, I don’t want to be there when it happens.Its called self preservation.

This seems unnecessarily over-cautious. Perhaps you are unusually risk averse. Personally I'd be happy to use the shuttle. Your language - "these electric abominations" - seems very emotive. I don't think they are "abominations" at all. If I could afford it I'd love to try one. The lack of engine noise; smooth, seamless transmission; and thrilling acceleration sound great.

It would be useful to get the straight dope on things like how often fires occur. I've read that cheap Chinese scooters are catching fire worryingly often, but I don't know about cars. Personally I would think the highest risks come from the semi-autonomous driving features to be found in Tesla and the like.

[YHT]

wooo. Lots to think and ponder about.
Did the driver get done for speeding and or using his phone whilst driving??

Ref the Shuttle. Each rail car has doors at each end with doors to the adjacent rail car. In the event of a problem folk are evacuated from the rail car with the problem, through the double set of passenger doors to the next car. If it were a fire I suspect the fire suppression system would activate.

I must admit to having been the "cause" of a problem on a Shuttle once (a long time ago!). Was in my Montego and diesel was discovered to be leaking from the engine compartment onto the floor! Shuttle staff were very calm and all folk in the rail car where mine was were evacuated to the next rail car until we got to Calais. There wasnt a fire or smoke or anything and when everyone ahead had driven off they allowed me to drive off and park up out of the way of those leaving. A team of breakdown folk came, we opened the bonnet, found what the problem was( there was a hole in the fuel surge tank due to internal corrosion) and managed to re-arrange the rubber hoses to bypass the surge tank and off I drove. No charge!

[BRG75]

If I may come back into this - re the shuttle If it were a fire I suspect the fire suppression system would activate.

It's well established that these fires cannot be extinguished, they have to burn out - in the case of the ships, I guess on the sea bed.