Brake pipes to rear

HarryM1BYT · 23rd August 2012, 12:34

I have just spent this morning checking, oiling and greasing my brake pipes - a bit of preventative. For the information of those who might be considering replacing the rear pipe work, where it is suggested to run over the tank - it does not in fact go over it....

There are two pipes which run from the front to the rear. They run together clipped to the chassis until they meeet the tank, then rise up to the front upper corner of the tank. At their highest point, they part company to go to the left and right rear wheels, fixed to the chassis and following the line of the front upper corner of the tank.

It looks a little awkward to replace them with the tank in place, but perfectly do-able.

My only bad bit of pipe was a bit of surface rust, at the final section/ final clip at the rear wheel, just before the flexi - where they get all of the grit flung from the rear wheels. These are the bits I suggest that an close eye is maintained upon.

Goodtimegaz · 23rd August 2012, 13:02

How strange, just been doing mine only mine are gone in that exact same place. On a Rover 800 I had the pipes ran under the rear pas seat and out to the wheels, the only bad bit was the last 6 inches, instead of replacing the whole length I used a 3/16 hydraulic high pres straight connector under the pass seat out of sight of the MOT man. On the 75 this would be an easy fix but visable to the tester would anyone know if this repair would be acceptable?

HarryM1BYT · 23rd August 2012, 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goodtimegaz

How strange, just been doing mine only mine are gone in that exact same place. On a Rover 800 I had the pipes ran under the rear pas seat and out to the wheels, the only bad bit was the last 6 inches, instead of replacing the whole length I used a 3/16 hydraulic high pres straight connector under the pass seat out of sight of the MOT man. On the 75 this would be an easy fix but visable to the tester would anyone know if this repair would be acceptable?

Joints are quite acceptable, providing all of the rusting pipe work is taken out and replaced. The 75 has a joint midway in the long run of each pipe going to the rear.

Goodtimegaz · 23rd August 2012, 16:38

Harry
I suspect your pipes may have been done sometime in the past as mine has no joint in the middle and the nearside pipe is routed over the tank. Just spent a full hour fishing the new copper pipe on the same rout as the old one very fidely but not impossible and easier than dropping the tank, not sure yet should I change the lot or take the easier option and put a union on the vertical section.
Going out now to see if my flaring tool works ok on a bit of old steel pipe, if so will join with union.

HarryM1BYT · 23rd August 2012, 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goodtimegaz

Harry
I suspect your pipes may have been done sometime in the past as mine has no joint in the middle and the nearside pipe is routed over the tank. Just spent a full hour fishing the new copper pipe on the same rout as the old one very fidely but not impossible and easier than dropping the tank, not sure yet should I change the lot or take the easier option and put a union on the vertical section.
Going out now to see if my flaring tool works ok on a bit of old steel pipe, if so will join with union.

They are without doubt the original pipes - its a 2004 BTW, perhaps they started adding the joints later?

As said it looked like an awkward job, but do-able without tank removal.

SD1too · 24th August 2012, 07:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryM1BYT

They are without doubt the original pipes - its a 2004 BTW, perhaps they started adding the joints later?

Hi Harry,

That's interesting because my 1999 car didn't have a joint under the floorpan, as Goodtimegaz says.

I was interested in what you had to say about the pipe routing in the fuel tank area. When you remove the fuel pump and filter access panels under the rear seat cushion, can you see the nearside pipe run? I can on my car, and I can't see how that can be viewed as anything other than the pipes running on top of the fuel tank. Perhaps the diesel is different.

Perhaps it is possible to push a new pipe in the small gap between tank upper surface and bodywork, but I think it would snag repeatedly, especially as there is a large wiring loom following the same route. There is virtually no chance that you would be able to insert the new pipe in the clips (hidden from view) so it might rattle around. You'd end up with a horribly twisted, probably loose pipe, which I have to say is not the sort of repair with which I would be happy. But in any case, it's unnecessary to do this because the pipe in this area never gets wet so doesn't rust.

Simon.

HarryM1BYT · 24th August 2012, 13:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by SD1too

Hi Harry,

That's interesting because my 1999 car didn't have a joint under the floorpan, as Goodtimegaz says.

I was interested in what you had to say about the pipe routing in the fuel tank area. When you remove the fuel pump and filter access panels under the rear seat cushion, can you see the nearside pipe run? I can on my car, and I can't see how that can be viewed as anything other than the pipes running on top of the fuel tank. Perhaps the diesel is different.

Perhaps it is possible to push a new pipe in the small gap between tank upper surface and bodywork, but I think it would snag repeatedly, especially as there is a large wiring loom following the same route. There is virtually no chance that you would be able to insert the new pipe in the clips (hidden from view) so it might rattle around. You'd end up with a horribly twisted, probably loose pipe, which I have to say is not the sort of repair with which I would be happy. But in any case, it's unnecessary to do this because the pipe in this area never gets wet so doesn't rust.

Simon.

I originally started this job, because at my May MOT my tame examiner suggested the brake pipes to the front where showing signs of surface rust. He suggested greasing them.

Yesterday being a not too hot day and the air fairly still, I thought to get the car up off the ground, take a good look around and do the brake pipes. I especially checked around the front and found nothing, in fact they were all as new from the factory, apart from the final bit on the NS rear.

None the less I oiled them everywhere and then applied a final coat of grease, working on the assumption that the oil would soak into every crevice where as the grease would not.

On finding the slight rusting at the NS rear, I had a good look at the pipes for future reference when I am sure they will need replacing.

What I saw was a narrow gap (1.5" ?) where I could manage to get an oily brush up to them for their entire length. The only tank part they ran over the top of, was the tank support bracket at the front, but the bracket was nowhere near the pipes. The pipes were tight up to the corner chassis member which runs left to right. I didn't spot a loom in the way.

I would imagine that if the rear seat where lifted and the tank access panels removed, that you could fairly easly get your fingers in, reach towards the front and touch the pipes.

3disco · 24th August 2012, 14:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goodtimegaz

How strange, just been doing mine only mine are gone in that exact same place. On a Rover 800 I had the pipes ran under the rear pas seat and out to the wheels, the only bad bit was the last 6 inches, instead of replacing the whole length I used a 3/16 hydraulic high pres straight connector under the pass seat out of sight of the MOT man. On the 75 this would be an easy fix but visable to the tester would anyone know if this repair would be acceptable?

Did you flare the pipes or use olives,if the latter not advisable or safe.

marinabrian · 24th August 2012, 18:14

To be honest a lot of fuss is made over this particular job, and how I tackled it is as follows.
With as little fuel in the tank as possible and the car either reversed up on ramps or securely positioned on axle stands lower the tank carefully so it is resting on the exhaust.
Now disconnect the unions where the pipes connect to the front section, and using a blanking plug to minimise fluid loss plug the front section.
Where the pipework is routed behind the tank unclip carefully.
Now using a small pipe cutter cut the section which routes to the OSR, then hacksaw the pipes where they meet the unions to both rear flexy pipes, this will be explained later.
Using a hammer give the unions a sharp tap, now with a single hex socket tighten the flare nut slightly, this breaks the rust seal and will allow for the union to be unscrewed from the flexy pipe.
Now using the old pipework which you have removed from the car, using 3/16 kunifer and a micro pipe bender like this

it is possible to replicate carefully the original pipework including the part cut behind the tank, remembering to add on approximately 1 1/4 inches of pipe to account for the part hacksawed off earlier, and subtracting the length of the union used for jointing behind the tank.
The section which was cut earlier behind the tank can be joined using the same method that the original front to rear unions, this is necessary to be put in in two sections as it is almost impossible to fit this section in one piece without complete removal of the tank.
If you have it right the replacement pipe will follow exactly the route of the original, will look oem, and better still will outlast the car.
All that is left is to bleed the brakes as per normal.
Brian

Goodtimegaz · 24th August 2012, 18:24

On my old 800 I used H P straight connectors with olives rated at 100 bar, perfectly safe but maybe not technicaly correct.Today I finished replacing my front to rear pipes, joined just after the first clip. My cheapish flaring tool had no probs forming a single flare on the steel pipe and of course a double on the copper, I also fitted a couple of extra clips (home made) to give the copper pipe a little more support.
I bled the system the old fashioned way resulting in a rock hard pedal engine off, and a little SPS engine running, MOT Wednesday, see how she goes back box a bit dodgy and it's the origional so maybe more rolling around on the floor.I forgot to mention the reason for compression fittings on the 800 was my flaring tool not man enough for those steel pipes, so the 75 pipes must be a softer grade M S .

23rd August 2012, 12:34	#1
HarryM1BYT This is my second home 75 Contemporary SE Mk II 2004 Man. Sal. CDTi 135ps, FBH on red diesel, WinCE6 DD Join Date: May 2010 Location: Leeds Posts: 17,273 Thanks: 2,160 Thanked 2,061 Times in 1,586 Posts	Brake pipes to rear I have just spent this morning checking, oiling and greasing my brake pipes - a bit of preventative. For the information of those who might be considering replacing the rear pipe work, where it is suggested to run over the tank - it does not in fact go over it.... There are two pipes which run from the front to the rear. They run together clipped to the chassis until they meeet the tank, then rise up to the front upper corner of the tank. At their highest point, they part company to go to the left and right rear wheels, fixed to the chassis and following the line of the front upper corner of the tank. It looks a little awkward to replace them with the tank in place, but perfectly do-able. My only bad bit of pipe was a bit of surface rust, at the final section/ final clip at the rear wheel, just before the flexi - where they get all of the grit flung from the rear wheels. These are the bits I suggest that an close eye is maintained upon. __________________ Harry How To's and items I offer for free, or just to cover the cost of my expenses... http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...40#post1764540 Fix a poor handbrake; DIY ABS diagnostic unit; Loan of the spanner needed to change the CDT belts; free OBD diagnostics +MAF; Correct Bosch MAF cheap; DVB-T install in an ex-hi-line system; DD install with a HK amp; FBH servicing. I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

23rd August 2012, 13:02	#2
Goodtimegaz Avid contributor 75 saloon Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Prescot Posts: 184 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	How strange, just been doing mine only mine are gone in that exact same place. On a Rover 800 I had the pipes ran under the rear pas seat and out to the wheels, the only bad bit was the last 6 inches, instead of replacing the whole length I used a 3/16 hydraulic high pres straight connector under the pass seat out of sight of the MOT man. On the 75 this would be an easy fix but visable to the tester would anyone know if this repair would be acceptable?

23rd August 2012, 16:38	#4
Goodtimegaz Avid contributor 75 saloon Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Prescot Posts: 184 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Harry I suspect your pipes may have been done sometime in the past as mine has no joint in the middle and the nearside pipe is routed over the tank. Just spent a full hour fishing the new copper pipe on the same rout as the old one very fidely but not impossible and easier than dropping the tank, not sure yet should I change the lot or take the easier option and put a union on the vertical section. Going out now to see if my flaring tool works ok on a bit of old steel pipe, if so will join with union.

24th August 2012, 18:14	#9
marinabrian MG ZT Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne Posts: 20,151 Thanks: 3,565 Thanked 10,837 Times in 5,718 Posts	To be honest a lot of fuss is made over this particular job, and how I tackled it is as follows. With as little fuel in the tank as possible and the car either reversed up on ramps or securely positioned on axle stands lower the tank carefully so it is resting on the exhaust. Now disconnect the unions where the pipes connect to the front section, and using a blanking plug to minimise fluid loss plug the front section. Where the pipework is routed behind the tank unclip carefully. Now using a small pipe cutter cut the section which routes to the OSR, then hacksaw the pipes where they meet the unions to both rear flexy pipes, this will be explained later. Using a hammer give the unions a sharp tap, now with a single hex socket *tighten* the flare nut slightly, this breaks the rust seal and will allow for the union to be unscrewed from the flexy pipe. Now using the old pipework which you have removed from the car, using 3/16 kunifer and a micro pipe bender like this it is possible to replicate carefully the original pipework including the part cut behind the tank, remembering to add on approximately 1 1/4 inches of pipe to account for the part hacksawed off earlier, and subtracting the length of the union used for jointing behind the tank. The section which was cut earlier behind the tank can be joined using the same method that the original front to rear unions, this is necessary to be put in in two sections as it is almost impossible to fit this section in one piece without complete removal of the tank. If you have it right the replacement pipe will follow exactly the route of the original, will look oem, and better still will outlast the car. All that is left is to bleed the brakes as per normal. Brian

24th August 2012, 18:24	#10
Goodtimegaz Avid contributor 75 saloon Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Prescot Posts: 184 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	On my old 800 I used H P straight connectors with olives rated at 100 bar, perfectly safe but maybe not technicaly correct.Today I finished replacing my front to rear pipes, joined just after the first clip. My cheapish flaring tool had no probs forming a single flare on the steel pipe and of course a double on the copper, I also fitted a couple of extra clips (home made) to give the copper pipe a little more support. I bled the system the old fashioned way resulting in a rock hard pedal engine off, and a little SPS engine running, MOT Wednesday, see how she goes back box a bit dodgy and it's the origional so maybe more rolling around on the floor.I forgot to mention the reason for compression fittings on the 800 was my flaring tool not man enough for those steel pipes, so the 75 pipes must be a softer grade M S .