If it aint broke......

ChestersDad · 28th September 2012, 21:13

CDTi Auto (60K):

The above sentiment comes to mind but I did have a problem....honest!

Been doing a fair bit of motorway mileage recently and had the need to kickdown for more speed and there was nothing - in fact she was dying from 75 to 60mph having kicked down to 3rd and the more one put foot down the more she stuttered and jerked as if fuel supply was being interupted....quite dramatic....

Eased off throttle and she changed up - eased back down and (using torque rather than revs) she pulled away fast and nice to 80mph no probs.

Repeated the scenario a few times using kick down and the same jerky no revs and dying effect was evident

Slowed to nearside lane and simulated again without kickdown but by a manual selection off 3rd and floored it - same thing happened - stuttering and no power.....

During this there was no smoke - so my thinking it's not collapsing pipe or a breathing issue....

Immediately thought of fuel pump failure - considering high speed running and then sudden further demand for fuel and so insufficient supply...

Fuel tank was 3/4 full

Only changes recently:

1. Battery change for new one 1 week before
2. Treated myself to a 1/3 tank of higher cetane diesel on the said journey
3. Tesco fill up before that
4. The UBP does seem to be noisier and I cannot say that it turns off after around 30 secs as I thought it should (with engine not running)

After leaving motorway and with an average speed down dramatically and then repeating all of the above there appeared to be no more problem!!???

In fact since then (and a week later) I cannot repeat the problem and car runs lovely - but there is a fault lurking there somewhere...

I have checked fuses and that both pumps are indeed working but had to disconnect the UBP to hear the In-tank one and I did hear it!

Maybe one or the other pumps are failing intermittently?
Maybe a sensor fuel pressure fault on common rail?
Maybe dirty or watery Super Diesel - now gone through?
Maybe a sync problem between autobox and main ecu due to battery change?

Never had a starting problem, never had this before, not got it now?
But if I don't try and track down the issue it will come back and bite harder when least needed....

Maybe a diagnostic check to pinpoint errors?

Any ideas chappies and chapesses?

David3807 · 29th September 2012, 19:24

Was it raining when the problem surfaced ???

If it was have you added a failing MAF to the possibilites ?? Road spray has been known to cause problems with the MAF usually though with a MAF that is past its best anyway.

Mike Noc · 29th September 2012, 20:33

Anything similar to this thread?

http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...d.php?t=125408

Mike

ChestersDad · 29th September 2012, 21:02

Just got in - and thanks for the response guys....

Dave:

Not raining that I recall....and not really considered MAF as the culprit.

The "lying ipk"

says 45 mpg but I know what you mean....could be a false read stutter due to momentary contamination but then the problem stayed with us until the last half hour of the journey off the motorway with slower speeds....suppose a diagnostic might reveal something?

Mike:

I'll read - thanks.....

ChestersDad · 29th September 2012, 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Noc

Anything similar to this thread?

http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...d.php?t=125408

Mike

Failing crank sensor eh? Could be I suppose Mike though it's never happened before, no starting issues and the car now revs freely again, under 'drive', right up to 4000. I will check again to see if It happens at 3000ish.

I recall now that when it started losing power, at change down, the stuttering/jerkiness increases the more you apply the right foot on the throttle.

Oct. 7th:
Check last 3 brim to brims and it seems the 'ipk' is not lying - by much - 44mpg actual! Chuffed!

Haven't been in the car since but taking her out today for a run - fingers crossed

ChestersDad · 7th October 2012, 17:59

Update:

Thanks to Wyn (Eurorover)

for connecting his T4 which showed that car is running great (which it is) with no warnings but for a historical 'low fuel pressure parameter' or something like that...

So something was (is) amiss but not showing now but maybe a fuel pump had a stutter or a fuel pressure switch did?

Gave it a bit of a hammering during the trip to and from Wyn's and all was and is well - so wait and see if it reoccurs.

Before I do the research Does Anyone Know the part number or best place to get a good fuel pressure sensor please? (just in case!)

James.uk · 8th October 2012, 03:36

May have been some water in the fuel, of dirt perhaps.

If it happens again change it down manually to a low gear and give it some revs, that should suck any muck through the system..

Jumping on the pedal to kick it down also causes temp overfuelling with a diesel engine, and usually a puff of smoke, maybe an injector clogged temporarily..

...

marinabrian · 8th October 2012, 08:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChestersDad

Update:

Thanks to Wyn (Eurorover)

for connecting his T4 which showed that car is running great (which it is) with no warnings but for a historical 'low fuel pressure parameter' or something like that...

So something was (is) amiss but not showing now but maybe a fuel pump had a stutter or a fuel pressure switch did?

Gave it a bit of a hammering during the trip to and from Wyn's and all was and is well - so wait and see if it reoccurs.

Before I do the research Does Anyone Know the part number or best place to get a good fuel pressure sensor please? (just in case!)

"Pre delivery fuel pressure too low for starting" is the historical error your car would have been reporting

This is caused when the ECM inhibits injector operation when the LP fuel rail sensor is seen to be less than 125 KPa, quite common and don't worry about it.
If it occurs again, the engine speed, road speed etc can be used to try and localise the likely culprit.
HTH
Brian

ChestersDad · 8th October 2012, 08:56

Much obliged Boys

The Mrs and me were thinking over the start of that journey (the last 50 miles is when the prob occurred) when we filled up at a Shell Garage and we remembered that because there was a huge queue I said I know I'll treat the ol' girl to a third of a tank of the Super diesel stuff. A bit expensive but hey it'll be good for her just his once!

I have a slight niggle that because hardly anyone buys the 'spensive stuff there may not have been much in the bunker and so gave rise to an ingress of dirt or water condensation from that for court pump - seems too coincidental not to make the connection....but I would have thought that would have stayed in the fuel filter?

Anyway she's driving well now and because I've floored it a few times to try and force the issue (nothing doing - good) I didn't realize she could go that fast!!

James.uk · 8th October 2012, 16:23

Diesels thrive on hard work... give it plenty of wellie and it will serve you well.

..

28th September 2012, 21:13	#1
ChestersDad Still 75less :-( 1988 Defender 90 Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Carmarthenshire Posts: 531 Thanks: 15 Thanked 93 Times in 37 Posts	If it aint broke...... CDTi Auto (60K): The above sentiment comes to mind but I did have a problem....honest! Been doing a fair bit of motorway mileage recently and had the need to kickdown for more speed and there was nothing - in fact she was dying from 75 to 60mph having kicked down to 3rd and the more one put foot down the more she stuttered and jerked as if fuel supply was being interupted....quite dramatic.... Eased off throttle and she changed up - eased back down and (using torque rather than revs) she pulled away fast and nice to 80mph no probs. Repeated the scenario a few times using kick down and the same jerky no revs and dying effect was evident Slowed to nearside lane and simulated again without kickdown but by a manual selection off 3rd and floored it - same thing happened - stuttering and no power..... During this there was no smoke - so my thinking it's not collapsing pipe or a breathing issue.... Immediately thought of fuel pump failure - considering high speed running and then sudden further demand for fuel and so insufficient supply... Fuel tank was 3/4 full Only changes recently: 1. Battery change for new one 1 week before 2. Treated myself to a 1/3 tank of higher cetane diesel on the said journey 3. Tesco fill up before that 4. The UBP does seem to be noisier and I cannot say that it turns off after around 30 secs as I thought it should (with engine not running) After leaving motorway and with an average speed down dramatically and then repeating all of the above there appeared to be no more problem!!??? In fact since then (and a week later) I cannot repeat the problem and car runs lovely - but there is a fault lurking there somewhere... I have checked fuses and that both pumps are indeed working but had to disconnect the UBP to hear the In-tank one and I did hear it! Maybe one or the other pumps are failing intermittently? Maybe a sensor fuel pressure fault on common rail? Maybe dirty or watery Super Diesel - now gone through? Maybe a sync problem between autobox and main ecu due to battery change? Never had a starting problem, never had this before, not got it now? But if I don't try and track down the issue it will come back and bite harder when least needed.... Maybe a diagnostic check to pinpoint errors? Any ideas chappies and chapesses? __________________ Don't save for the future as someone else will lose it for you!

29th September 2012, 19:24	#2
David3807 Posted a thing or two 2002 R75 Conn SE 2.5l Auto Tourer, 2001 R75 Conn SE 2.5 Auto Saloon Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Gravesend Posts: 1,897 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Was it raining when the problem surfaced ??? If it was have you added a failing MAF to the possibilites ?? Road spray has been known to cause problems with the MAF usually though with a MAF that is past its best anyway. Last edited by David3807; 29th September 2012 at 19:26..

29th September 2012, 21:02	#4
ChestersDad Still 75less :-( 1988 Defender 90 Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Carmarthenshire Posts: 531 Thanks: 15 Thanked 93 Times in 37 Posts	Just got in - and thanks for the response guys.... Dave: Not raining that I recall....and not really considered MAF as the culprit. The "lying ipk" says 45 mpg but I know what you mean....could be a false read stutter due to momentary contamination but then the problem stayed with us until the last half hour of the journey off the motorway with slower speeds....suppose a diagnostic might reveal something? Mike: I'll read - thanks..... __________________ Don't save for the future as someone else will lose it for you!

7th October 2012, 17:59	#6
ChestersDad Still 75less :-( 1988 Defender 90 Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Carmarthenshire Posts: 531 Thanks: 15 Thanked 93 Times in 37 Posts	Update... Update: Thanks to Wyn (Eurorover) for connecting his T4 which showed that car is running great (which it is) with no warnings but for a historical 'low fuel pressure parameter' or something like that... So something was (is) amiss but not showing now but maybe a fuel pump had a stutter or a fuel pressure switch did? Gave it a bit of a hammering during the trip to and from Wyn's and all was and is well - so wait and see if it reoccurs. Before I do the research Does Anyone Know the part number or best place to get a good fuel pressure sensor please? (just in case!) __________________ Don't save for the future as someone else will lose it for you!

8th October 2012, 08:56	#9
ChestersDad Still 75less :-( 1988 Defender 90 Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Carmarthenshire Posts: 531 Thanks: 15 Thanked 93 Times in 37 Posts	Much obliged Boys The Mrs and me were thinking over the start of that journey (the last 50 miles is when the prob occurred) when we filled up at a Shell Garage and we remembered that because there was a huge queue I said I know I'll treat the ol' girl to a third of a tank of the Super diesel stuff. A bit expensive but hey it'll be good for her just his once! I have a slight niggle that because hardly anyone buys the 'spensive stuff there may not have been much in the bunker and so gave rise to an ingress of dirt or water condensation from that for court pump - seems too coincidental not to make the connection....but I would have thought that would have stayed in the fuel filter? Anyway she's driving well now and because I've floored it a few times to try and force the issue (nothing doing - good) I didn't realize she could go that fast!! __________________ Don't save for the future as someone else will lose it for you!

29th September 2012, 20:33	#3
Mike Noc This is my second home Rover 75 CDT Manual Connoisseur SE, Rover 75 CDT Automatic Connoisseur SE & a Freelander Td4. Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Hampshire Posts: 11,547 Thanks: 3,470 Thanked 3,119 Times in 2,247 Posts	Anything similar to this thread? http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...d.php?t=125408 Mike

8th October 2012, 03:36	#7
James.uk Passed Away 2002 Pale Blue. Rover 75 CDTi Connoisseur auto. 170K miles Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Near the M67. Posts: 14,509 Thanks: 199 Thanked 585 Times in 397 Posts	May have been some water in the fuel, of dirt perhaps. If it happens again change it down manually to a low gear and give it some revs, that should suck any muck through the system.. Jumping on the pedal to kick it down also causes temp overfuelling with a diesel engine, and usually a puff of smoke, maybe an injector clogged temporarily.. ...

8th October 2012, 16:23	#10
James.uk Passed Away 2002 Pale Blue. Rover 75 CDTi Connoisseur auto. 170K miles Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Near the M67. Posts: 14,509 Thanks: 199 Thanked 585 Times in 397 Posts	Diesels thrive on hard work... give it plenty of wellie and it will serve you well. ..

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