That front lower arm ball joint - #%&!

[Arctic]

Originally Posted by Retap

Success! Nothing like the sound of separating ball joint in the afternoon chill.

Those moog bushes look to be like the cheap Chinese ones you can get not much rubber in them, like the Unipart ones below.

This is an original wishbone bush note how much rubber is in them.
1

another one.
2

Unipart one
3

4

Cheap Chinese ones, also some Febi ones amongst other makes have less rubber in them, as do your moog seems to be the same.

5

Chinese Febi left and Unipart on the right altogether, also note the position off the centre bushes they are all in different places, therefore another reason why they maybe hard to line up, the Unipart ones lined up correct

6

I purchased some arms from QH earlier this year to keep on the shelf should i need them in the future they seem good quality and finished nicely, i also added extra grease to all swivels/ joints, these are to go with my Unipart bushes.
7

Always best to try and change these while you have the car on ramps, preferably on four ramp so car is level.
8

[Retap]

The bush thats knackerd on the arm that i just took off was one of those that slid on nicely without much resistance but you can see the state of it however that wasnt even the reason for removing it not even noticed by the mot tester.


I'm not sure that claiming the bush damage caused by misalignment however slight is accurate at all the bush was fitted perfect as i had a lot of trouble with that arm as it came with a bush pressed firmly on to far which i had to cut off.


I still have this knackerd arm and intend to cut the bush off to measure the diameter of the arm around the hexagon area because i measured the new arm in the same way out of curiosity using my trusty wilko calipers and will let you all know my findings if you like. Pretty sure the new arm is fatter towards the edge than where the bush sits and thats a Rimmer OEM part supplied with a nice big yellow sticker on it "Autonational" see photo below.







Its going to be interesting finding out over the next year how this tight fitting bush copes but i dont buy the argument the arm needs to move in the bush at all maybe handy when fitting but thats it however im not a pro just a diy guy with a resonable idea of things possibly edging towards a 4* haynes rating lol.



For me it would be out of spec if the arm was allowed to move within the bush laterally as the arm has no need to travel like that with the main ball joint into the sub frame acting as pivot point and so such lateral forces would be transferred 90 degrees by the pivot into the bush causing the arm to press into the side rubbers. The ball joint into the subframe ought to hold the arm unless loose or worn and allow it to only move up and down with the wheel which is a rotation force in the bush, any thrust laterally from the wheel would as described transfer 90 degrees by the pivot action into the side of the bush.



Anyway got 250 mile round trip on now with fresh signed off mot so catch ya all later.

[Retap]

Originally Posted by Arctic

Those moog bushes look to be like the cheap Chinese ones you can get not much rubber in them, like the Unipart ones below.

This is an original wishbone bush note how much rubber is in them.
1

another one.
2

Unipart one
3

4

Cheap Chinese ones, also some Febi ones amongst other makes have less rubber in them, as do your moog seems to be the same.

5

Chinese Febi left and Unipart on the right altogether, also note the position off the centre bushes they are all in different places, therefore another reason why they maybe hard to line up, the Unipart ones lined up correct

6

I purchased some arms from QH earlier this year to keep on the shelf should i need them in the future they seem good quality and finished nicely, i also added extra grease to all swivels/ joints, these are to go with my Unipart bushes.
7

Always best to try and change these while you have the car on ramps, preferably on four ramp so car is level.
8

Yaah some of those bushes look to be pressed in wrong to the bracket clearly such shenanigans would cause premature tares in the rubber if fitted in time. The first bush i had to cut off that was damaged trying to fit it actually was loose in the bracket and given how tight the inner part was onto the arm maybe a reason but not entirely imo. Not good and Rimmer said it was oem top quality but sent a replacement at no charge which is now in my growing parts box for next time as i used a moog one again.

[polinsteve]

Originally Posted by patrolman pete

I had this grief a while back even though the arm had only been on just over 12 months. I just used a forked ball joint splitter as the arm was U/S anyway , and just brayed at it until it popped out.

Unbeknown to me a local garage found a really easy way. They cut and welded the subframe. I didn't know until the mot a few weeks later. It still passed but I wasn't happy.

[Retap]

Originally Posted by polinsteve

Unbeknown to me a local garage found a really easy way. They cut and welded the subframe. I didn't know until the mot a few weeks later. It still passed but I wasn't happy.

Thats outrageous.

[TourerSteve]

Originally Posted by Retap

For me it would be out of spec if the arm was allowed to move within the bush laterally

The bush should be a firm fit but lubricated will slide
This is for initial fitting only and once centralized the bush will soon pick up on the arm when weathered , hence on removal will be solid on the arm

[TourerSteve]

Originally Posted by SD1too

Thanks for the thought Jon but I'm happy to say that my replacement bush housings didn't require any rotation to align properly. They were from X-Part and my suspension arms were the originals. Simon

With the correct aligned bush housing the arm will need to be lifted up to the usual ride position so the bush in neutral loading
As I remember you refitted your arms while you had the strut removed which is easier than with the strut in position as the extended strut is lower than the usual ride position of the arm and can foul refitting the arm

Originally Posted by SD1too

Perhaps that's the cause of the difficulty you've all been having. My recent thread sought to draw members' attention to the X-Part option but it was met with significant reluctance.
Simon

Quality of parts can be an issue ,sometimes even with X- Part. Trouble is most of the parts are now pattern anyway. I will agree with Artic on the quality of Unipart which I used to buy ,but since their demise have had to look at other alternatives

The SKF arm and bush I purchased last was a good quality and a fitted and aligned as it should

[oldcarguy]

Originally Posted by SD1too

Hi John,

Are you struggling with the inner or outer balljoint? I can't quite work it out even after reviewing the early posts.

If it's the inner, I posted details in the Spring of a Sykes Pickavant articulated puller which turned out to be the perfect choice! No heat, banging or dropping the subframe required!

If it's the outer then I sympathise because I struggled with mine until, by chance, I discovered that the angle of the hub is critical. When I pushed the bottom inwards towards the gearbox the balljoint pin released, but you do have to push down on the suspension arm to counteract its springiness. Four hands are a distinct advantage.

Simon

I think that's the secret, it was the same on my lads Berlingo. Struggled for a time before realising that pushing in on the hub/susp arm was the way to go.

[SD1too]

Originally Posted by TourerSteve

As I remember you refitted your arms while you had the strut removed which is easier than with the strut in position ...

You're quite right Steve I did, but I don't follow how the strut would affect it. Surely it's the outer balljoint that needs to be separated from the hub so that the arm can be placed easily in the correct position to align the bush housing fixing holes or have I forgotten something?

Simon

[COLVERT]

Originally Posted by SD1too

You're quite right Steve I did, but I don't follow how the strut would affect it. Surely it's the outer balljoint that needs to be separated from the hub so that the arm can be placed easily in the correct position to align the bush housing fixing holes or have I forgotten something?

Simon

Yes. Outer separated and inner ball joint loose.

The arm can be assembled with the bush housing on and like that is easy to place in position.
With the two ball joints not doing anything the arm is very manoeuvrable.