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Old 27th February 2022, 13:03   #21
goltho
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This morning using borrowed NASA-based holographic technology (wifey ), I managed to read the white label. This has unearthed some further info. I've reviewed everything we've got so far which I hope will refocus the issues.

Facts established
The car was fitted new with:
• J RPD000240 self-levelling rear dampers
• RH Blue/Brown RKB000370 rear springs
• PT/JT Purple/Brown front springs (REB000480) and dampers (RNB000400/410)

Rear issues
Wheel-to-wing height is 20mm high @ 420mm
Bang when weight fully comes off nearside (main suspect is damper)

I know the following:
a) rear offside spring replaced in 2014 (so will assume both sides were)
b) OEM dampers were self-levelling

I do not know the following:
a) rear dampers still OEM self-levelling
b) replacement rear springs are OEM
c) what the effect is of fitting too-soft springs to self-levelling dampers (force the high ride height?)

Front issues
Wheel-to-wing height is 11mm low @ 389mm
Mid-undertray ground clearance is 65mm low @ 90mm

I know the following:
a) front springs are new ECP aftermarket Anschlers (https://www.eurocarparts.com/search/627750291)

I don't know the following:
a) whether or not I renewed the dampers with the rest of the suspension in October (I've forgotten, plonker )

Need to check whether:
a) rear springs are correct spec
b) rear dampers are correct sec
c) front dampers are correct spec
d) rear spring insulators are correct spec

Any issues I've missed?

Dougie.
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• Built 08/02/2005 @14:57 hrs: Registered 26/08/2005
• 122nd of 141 built that day
• British Racing Green Pearlescent (HFF)
• Sandstone leather with black piping (SPJ)
• 136,000 miles
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Old 28th February 2022, 11:13   #22
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ECP have now supplied me with the specs for their aftermarket springs I fitted (left column).



I had hoped that the fitted springs would be shorter and therefore account for the lower ride, but the opposite seems true? But then I see that the wire diameter is thicker which will make is stiffer. I also don't know if different springs have more or less coils (the fitted ones have 5, don't know what the OEM ones would have) which I guess would also affect stiffness.

Any engineers help out?

Dougie.
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R75 C2 RJBLH Connoisseur CDTi Auto Saloon
• Built 08/02/2005 @14:57 hrs: Registered 26/08/2005
• 122nd of 141 built that day
• British Racing Green Pearlescent (HFF)
• Sandstone leather with black piping (SPJ)
• 136,000 miles

Last edited by goltho; 28th February 2022 at 11:17..
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Old 28th February 2022, 12:35   #23
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Rover 75 Tourer

Blue/Brown springs 254mm long, 130mm dia. wire is 13.3mm (over black finish)

Dampers are Boge Nivomat. Self levellers are larger diameter than standard.
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Old 28th February 2022, 17:09   #24
T-Cut
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goltho View Post
ECP have now supplied me with the specs for their aftermarket springs I fitted (left column).


Hi Dougie, well according to Rimmer's spring part numbers, the EPC ones you have fitted on the front are specified for the saloon, not the tourer.
See: https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-REB101430
I assume that will make a difference?


TC
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Old 28th February 2022, 17:14   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Cut View Post
Hi Dougie, well according to Rimmer's spring part numbers, the EPC ones you have fitted on the front are specified for the saloon, not the tourer.
They undoubtedly are making a difference. They're specced for the 2.5 KV6 saloon, not the M47 Tourer, plus as the chart indicates, they're thinner despite being marginally longer. I had the car MoTd today and discussed the issue with my buddy who tested it. His view is that the reduced bulk in the wire width will definitely make it sag.

Dougie.
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R75 C2 RJBLH Connoisseur CDTi Auto Saloon
• Built 08/02/2005 @14:57 hrs: Registered 26/08/2005
• 122nd of 141 built that day
• British Racing Green Pearlescent (HFF)
• Sandstone leather with black piping (SPJ)
• 136,000 miles
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Old 2nd March 2022, 14:24   #26
norfie
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some spring info for you:
Green/Blue fitted load: 4071N spring rate 19.3N/mm, wire diameter 13.8mm
total number of coils 5, 3.6 are active
Purple/Brown fitted load: 4282N, spring rate 23.5N/mm, wire diameter 14.07mm, total number of coils 5, 3.8 are active

If you have green/blue fitted that would explain why the front is low
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Old 2nd March 2022, 15:55   #27
goltho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norfie View Post
some spring info for you:
Green/Blue fitted load: 4071N spring rate 19.3N/mm, wire diameter 13.8mm
total number of coils 5, 3.6 are active
Purple/Brown fitted load: 4282N, spring rate 23.5N/mm, wire diameter 14.07mm, total number of coils 5, 3.8 are active

If you have green/blue fitted that would explain why the front is low
Thanks for this Neil, it's excellent info. I've in fact set up a conversion spreadsheet to calculate spring rates for the existing wrong-size springs and also the OE specs. I'm having issues however with different aftermarket manufacturers having quite different specs on what are ostensibly the same product (i.e. Purple/Brown REB000480). Autodoc are better than most in providing tech specs and they show the measurements of their manufacturers here. However, other suppliers have different specs (usually longer although the sire diameter is always 14.5mm). The N/mm results I'm calculating though actually aren't far off what you've provided. I used 3.5 active coils as best guess.

Questions:
What do the 4071N/4282N relate to please?
Purple/Brown springs have wire diameters of 14.5mm and not 14.07mm from what I've seen?

Dougie.
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R75 C2 RJBLH Connoisseur CDTi Auto Saloon
• Built 08/02/2005 @14:57 hrs: Registered 26/08/2005
• 122nd of 141 built that day
• British Racing Green Pearlescent (HFF)
• Sandstone leather with black piping (SPJ)
• 136,000 miles
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Old 3rd March 2022, 09:01   #28
norfie
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Questions:
What do the 4071N/4282N relate to please?
Purple/Brown springs have wire diameters of 14.5mm and not 14.07mm from what I've seen?

Hi Dougie,
The 4071N and 4282N are the loads (in newtons) on the spring at fitted length i.e when installed on the vehicle.
As you know there are several different springs with different fitted loads to accommodate different options fitted to the vehicle like what engine, auto or manual gearbox, air con, FBH etc. they all change the weight so the springs have to change to keep the same ride height.
The spring diameter is 14.07mm. I work for the company that supplied the suspension modules to MGR and this is taken from our drawings of the springs.
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Old 3rd March 2022, 09:03   #29
goltho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norfie View Post
Hi Dougie,
The 4071N and 4282N are the loads (in newtons) on the spring at fitted length i.e when installed on the vehicle.
As you know there are several different springs with different fitted loads to accommodate different options fitted to the vehicle like what engine, auto or manual gearbox, air con, FBH etc. they all change the weight so the springs have to change to keep the same ride height.
The spring diameter is 14.07mm. I work for the company that supplied the suspension modules to MGR and this is taken from our drawings of the springs.
Perfect. Thanks so much.

Dougie.
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R75 C2 RJBLH Connoisseur CDTi Auto Saloon
• Built 08/02/2005 @14:57 hrs: Registered 26/08/2005
• 122nd of 141 built that day
• British Racing Green Pearlescent (HFF)
• Sandstone leather with black piping (SPJ)
• 136,000 miles
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Old 5th March 2022, 10:25   #30
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Hello again Dougie, If you plan on replacing road springs, I understand that eBay seller 'best_of_british_rover' sell MGR original spec stuff. If they have any, they might be cheaper than Rimmer for example. See: https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_n...pg=60&_fosrp=1
TC

Last edited by T-Cut; 5th March 2022 at 10:28..
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