Go Back   The 75 and ZT Owners Club Forums > Social Forums > Social Forum
Register FAQ Image Gallery Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read
Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 5th June 2020, 17:29   #51
clf
This is my second home
 
clf's Avatar
 
MG ZT CDTi

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: carrick
Posts: 7,859
Thanks: 3,494
Thanked 2,657 Times in 1,973 Posts
Default



Taken from the ONS

8.Glossary
Coronavirus (COVID-19) deaths
Coronavirus (COVID-19) deaths are those deaths registered in England and Wales in the stated week where COVID-19 was mentioned on the death certificate as “deaths involving COVID-19”.

In particular

where COVID-19 was mentioned on the death certificate as “deaths involving COVID-19".

INVOLVING! not as a result of!

at the home of a driver killed in fatal road accident,

investigating officer to the diver's wife ''was your husband taking any medication before the collision?''
wife, ''yes, he had taken paracetemol, as he had a sore throat and had a sore head''
investigating officer writes this in the notes.

Coroner now reads these notes, and will add involving covid19 to the fracture of the vertebrae caused by blunt force trauma (airbag deployment without a seatbelt). Coroner also notes, a mass on the side trachea. How did the man die?

Covid 19, or a broken neck?

The reality, the man actually had an early stage of throat cancer, but broke his neck as the airbag deployed when he had not put on his seat belt as he pulled out of a petrol station and into the path of a fully laden quarry lorry.

The data for England and Wales can be downloaded from HERE. It makes for interesting reading.

Currently the figures of reported influenza infection is low (the US reports are 'very low'), I wonder why?

Incidentally, the 40,000+ deaths, are deaths where there was a positive test for Covid-19, again, this is not going to be the cause of death. It may well accelerate death, but it does not allow for those who have died from other causes that they would have died from anyway eg end stage cancer, dementia, or as above a car accident etc. It is now too late to find out the true extent of covid related death.

I am still not saying that Covid 19 is similar to influenza, nor am I denying the severity of its presence. I am, however, refusing to succumb to the paranoia caused by the sensationalised headlines from the numbers without analysis!

It is a virus, there will not be a cure for it, however, there may be some form of vaccine developed similar to that of the influenza (SARS2?) which will reduce the risk to life if and when it is contracted, by those deemed to be vulnerable (just as the influenza vaccine is and has been for the past 10 years or so). Joe Bloggs is unlikely to receive an invitation initially for this vaccine, just as he doesnt receive an invitation for the flu shot either.......
__________________


It is not gloss primer .............. it is duct tape silver!

Last edited by clf; 5th June 2020 at 18:38..
clf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th June 2020, 18:38   #52
Avulon
This is my second home
 
1.8t Tourer

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Tanelorn
Posts: 4,830
Thanks: 956
Thanked 1,148 Times in 916 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbev51 View Post
357 is far too many deaths in last 24 hours to have relaxed the rules starting when we did. I’m not worried for myself, I’m only concerned for the good of the country as a whole.

How many deaths do you think there would normally be in a 24 hr period in the UK?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie25 View Post
The UK has become only the second country to report more than 40,000 coronavirus deaths, according to the latest government figures today.

By any standard, comparison or measure this is appalling.

Hopefully, the media keep highlighting this issue, as each death is a personal family Tragedy.

Absolute codswallop, We've counted anyone with a sniffle or a cough that has died from falling off a ladder, or from pure old age. 2 months ago we were looking at forecasts upwards of 400,000 deaths. I really couldn't care less how other countries have counted: they've all used different rules, if anyone believes the numbers from China (even given their draconian enforcement) then they are fools. Even for those that believe that the 40,000 counted is directly attributable to covid-19: put into perspective that is only 0.05% of the UK population: not the 0.5% that was feared it might be.


Before the cries of insensitive psycopath rain down on me. I'm bound to say that every indvidual death for whatever reason is always a tragedy for the nearest and dearest. However in the larger scheme of things it is something that happens with far more regularity than many people fully comprehend. I've lost family prematurely (cancer) myself, I won't stop mourning. But as a collective, as a country we still must look to the whole, not just the individual (I'll never say 'the greater good' : it doesn't exist).
__________________
Need a T4 ?: T4 Owners Map thanks to Stevestrat ( use at your own risk)

Where?:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanelorn
Mods/Retrofits:

PCV vortex 'filter'; bluetooth; inline thermostat; reversing sensors; plenum spyhole ; headlamp washers ; Diy mp3 player replacing CD multichanger; FBH with remote; Headlamp washers; black/chrome front grille, rear blind; Xenon projectors
To do:
puddle lights; 2 Din cd/nav to fit; boot release button
Avulon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th June 2020, 19:03   #53
wraymond
I will find or make a way
 
wraymond's Avatar
 
75 Auto 2.5 SE

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Westcliff on Sea
Posts: 5,168
Thanks: 423
Thanked 1,680 Times in 1,014 Posts
Default

Thank you, I posted a rebuttal of the posts you quoted but deleted it because it sounded rude! The point is we are being badly served by our leaders and there seems to nobody at the wheel. Sometimes guesswork is OK, but this is a serious matter and accuracy is paramount. This outbreak of misinformation is the start of a slide into Lord Knows Where and nobody seems to give a damn.
__________________
member no. 235
wraymond is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th June 2020, 19:22   #54
clf
This is my second home
 
clf's Avatar
 
MG ZT CDTi

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: carrick
Posts: 7,859
Thanks: 3,494
Thanked 2,657 Times in 1,973 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wraymond View Post
Thank you, I posted a rebuttal of the posts you quoted but deleted it because it sounded rude! The point is we are being badly served by our leaders and there seems to nobody at the wheel. Sometimes guesswork is OK, but this is a serious matter and accuracy is paramount. This outbreak of misinformation is the start of a slide into Lord Knows Where and nobody seems to give a damn.
Thank goodness for that, I thought I saw your post after mine before I went for my dinner lol.

Badly served by our leaders I would have to disagree. Regardless of who or what was at the helm, we would 'still be badly served'. We are being badly served by our press though. One's opinion is going to be different to another's and those opinion could easily be reversed if the opposing side was in power. (ie rather than you thinking we are badly served, another will believe we are being well served ad infinitum).

The accuracy though is there (if you keep to one source - ie the UK figures, from a single official source to maintain consistency). But sometimes that accuracy is hard to follow, or quite simply does not make good headlines. 40,000 deaths with 250,000 positive tests doesnt look good, however, that 250 000 figure is from a relatively short period of time, compared to that of the 40k deaths, and doesnt make mention of the 5 point whatever million infected (since flu figures are down, I wonder how many of those actually have/had influenza?).

At the end of the day, we have to cope with what we have - it is a democracy after all. Make the best of what you have, and protect yourself the best way you see fit. A bit of good sense will go a long way.
__________________


It is not gloss primer .............. it is duct tape silver!
clf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th June 2020, 22:02   #55
BigRuss
Premium Trader
 
BigRuss's Avatar
 
75 CDT Tourer,2.5 Launch Saloon, Omipro MG/Rover (T4)

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Liversedge, West Yorkshire
Posts: 5,405
Thanks: 1,105
Thanked 1,340 Times in 661 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie25 View Post
The UK has become only the second country to report more than 40,000 coronavirus deaths, according to the latest government figures today.

By any standard, comparison or measure this is appalling.

Hopefully, the media keep highlighting this issue, as each death is a personal family Tragedy.
In Spain over March and April approx 40,000 people stopped claiming pensions
There's demands of the government to explain why but it doesn't take a lot of figuring out


Different countries have counted their figures differently who knows if the real figures accurately reported came to light it might be found that we might have not done as badly as the current figures would have us believe

Russ
__________________


Replacement Key Service
http://https://the75andztclub.co.uk/...d.php?t=244732
Full T4 Testbook diagnostics available.
Diesel ECU repair and replacement.
Options enabled or disabled as required.
Diesel X-Power 135 and 160bhp, Rover 1.8T 150 to 160
MG 160 V6 to 177 upgrades available
P.M. for details.
BigRuss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th June 2020, 23:18   #56
Stevie25
Loves to post
 
Rover 75 Saloon

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Bangor, NI
Posts: 369
Thanks: 356
Thanked 148 Times in 87 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRuss View Post
In Spain over March and April approx 40,000 people stopped claiming pensions
There's demands of the government to explain why but it doesn't take a lot of figuring out


Different countries have counted their figures differently who knows if the real figures accurately reported came to light it might be found that we might have not done as badly as the current figures would have us believe

Russ

To repeat:

By any standard, comparison or measure our death rate is appalling.
Stevie25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th June 2020, 03:33   #57
clf
This is my second home
 
clf's Avatar
 
MG ZT CDTi

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: carrick
Posts: 7,859
Thanks: 3,494
Thanked 2,657 Times in 1,973 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie25 View Post
To repeat:

By any standard, comparison or measure our death rate is appalling.
To make that comment make sense you would have to compare the total number of deaths from Feb-Jun 2020 (if that is where the 40k comes from) with the number of deaths between feb - jun 2019, to see how appalling it was.

The monthly average for England and Wales for 2018 as a quick example (am too tired to look hard) is around 45,000. With the current average monthly death (based upon w/c May 23rd figures) is roughly 53000. Now that is much higher obviously, 8000 more. However, the average figure has been increasing roughly by 1500-1700 per month on average annually until this year. (immigration and various birth rates could help explain this annual increase). So in real terms it has been an increase of perhaps 6500 monthly? Those figures though can only be based upon the first 6 months of this year, so overall that average will drop.

I would not call that appalling, it is disappointing. If you are to consider that appalling, it suggests a search for blame. So I will nudge towards your direction, and say I think those numbers are actually quite good, considering how stretched the NHS was before this outbreak. But the NHS has no bearing on this, even the powers that be have little blame. The individual must carry most blame. The data was there, the information, advice and guidance, yet there are those who choose to ignore and dismiss it all.
__________________


It is not gloss primer .............. it is duct tape silver!
clf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th June 2020, 06:29   #58
mbev51
Banned
 
Removed

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Removed
Posts: 1,343
Thanks: 171
Thanked 315 Times in 223 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avulon View Post
How many deaths do you think there would normally be in a 24 hr period).
I would expect to see the numbers under control. I cannot give absolute figures but my feeling is the economic case for easing the lockdown has been given priority over health considerations. On a health front it seems to me to be risky. The first wave isn't over, a second wave is a possibility. Only time will tell how the UK government has performed in all this, I’m sure it will be discussed for years. I bet labour is thankful they didn’t win the last election.
mbev51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th June 2020, 14:26   #59
marinabrian
 
marinabrian's Avatar
 
MG ZT

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne
Posts: 20,151
Thanks: 3,565
Thanked 10,837 Times in 5,718 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbev51 View Post
357 is far too many deaths in last 24 hours to have relaxed the rules starting when we did. I’m not worried for myself, I’m only concerned for the good of the country as a whole.
I find that hard to believe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie25 View Post
The UK has become only the second country to report more than 40,000 coronavirus deaths, according to the latest government figures today.

By any standard, comparison or measure this is appalling.

Hopefully, the media keep highlighting this issue, as each death is a personal family Tragedy.
You are exactly the dream poster child of those wishing for totalitarianism, every death is a family tragedy, irrespective of cause........so tell me how you defend to the widow of a cancer patient, or a heart attack victim, or indeed death by any other reason, that someone who has died with Covid-19, that their death is somehow more tragic than that loss of their loved one?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbev51 View Post
I would expect to see the numbers under control. I cannot give absolute figures but my feeling is the economic case for easing the lockdown has been given priority over health considerations. On a health front it seems to me to be risky. The first wave isn't over, a second wave is a possibility. Only time will tell how the UK government has performed in all this, I’m sure it will be discussed for years. I bet labour is thankful they didn’t win the last election.
It's easy to see with your closing sentence, that once again political bias is colouring views, this crisis should be viewed entirely apolitically, doesn't matter what you are, who you vote for, you stand the same chance as anyone of dying, or indeed not


541,589 people died in England and Wales in 2018, that is 45132 per month, allied with a population increase 11.543 births per 1000 people on the overall figures.

The death rate in 2019 was 623,087 equating to 51923 per month

The figures for the first 17 weeks of 2020 show that 229,294 deaths were registered, compared with 209,249 people in the first 17 weeks of 2018.


Now you can consider me a heretic, but sacrificing the entire world on the alter of Covid-19 is on the face of things foolhardy, and the underlying reasons for doing so are far more sinister than that of the effect of infection will ever be.

At some point people will realise we are being led down the garden path, and the prevention of the spread of Covid-19 is far more detrimental to life in general that that of the effect of the virus is on the population.

This coronavirus will not have a viable vaccine produced in time, if ever to save the country from financial ruin, and the only way realistically to proceed is the building of herd immunity, a nettle that must be grasped at some point.

One thing more, you are going to die, I am going to die, my children and their children will die, it is the only thing in life that is assured, and as such it is our duty to live our lives as fully and purposefully as we possibly can.

If you want to believe the absolute rubbish we are being spoonfed by the extremely biased media, the "facts" driven by the "science" who of course have no bias, especially when their funding sources are scrutinised, and hide out in your pillow fort until it all goes away, then fine do just that, it is your own choice to do so.

I prefer to live my life, and not simply exist

I've said it before, and I will say it again right from the beginning of this entire fiasco, there was something serious we were not being told about this pandemic, so cloaked in the hysteria whipped up by the media and it's constant handwringing and frankly distasteful reporting in minutiae, of each personal "tragedy", what do you believe that to be?

Brian
marinabrian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th June 2020, 16:03   #60
Stevie25
Loves to post
 
Rover 75 Saloon

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Bangor, NI
Posts: 369
Thanks: 356
Thanked 148 Times in 87 Posts
Default

You are exactly the dream poster child of those wishing for totalitarianism, every death is a family tragedy, irrespective of cause........so tell me how you defend to the widow of a cancer patient, or a heart attack victim, or indeed death by any other reason, that someone who has died with Covid-19, that their death is somehow more tragic than that loss of their loved one?


Of course all deaths are tragic.
However, lockdown in the UK came too late, therefore we had ‘needless’ deaths.

Not just me thinking that either.
Professor John Edmunds a scientist who advises the government on coronavirus said today, he wishes the UK had gone into lockdown sooner as the delay "cost a lot of lives".
Stevie25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 18:43.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright © 2006-2023, The Rover 75 & MG ZT Owners Club Ltd