Trade deal after Brexit

[Gate Keeper]

Originally Posted by Borg Warner

Some contributors may find the following links useful:

https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu_en

https://fullfact.org/

https://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK...ths-a-z-index/

http://www.churchill-society-london..../astonish.html

and

https://eeas.europa.eu/headquarters/...o-factsheet_en

On LandyZone there is an excellent thread entitled Brexit Already Bleak under Anything Goes, one has to register to view and take part, but there is no risk of it being closed. There is also another thread on SkyScrapper City along a similar vein, likewise you have to register.

For those on FaceAche there is Healthier in the EU, as well as European Movement UK.

Gary thanks for the links. In the LandyZone, am I to take it that there is no moderation in the discussion of politics. In the past, some members here, (excluding me) threw their teddy’s out of the pram when a political thread was closed Is it a requirement to be thick skinned to join the LandyZone?

[wraymond]

At the risk of getting my head bitten off, if anyone wants to see just how bad it can get on a relatively mildly moderated forum where politics/economics is.. well, I was going to say discussed but that's an exaggeration, try pistonheads. You might be glad of the light touch on here. As they say, be careful what you wish for.

[mbev51]

Hi, been keeping abreast of UK politics as best I can, we are halfway through a two month holiday in NZ. TM seems to be doing a reasonable job of keeping her party together, unfortunately she is making very little progress in her negotiations with the EU. It looks like the sort of fudge she wants isn't available, this, as someone has already said, runs the risk of forcing a catastrophic hard brexit.

The EU negotiators must be exasperated.

[Darcydog]

I think in many ways the EU is in denial about the level of antiestablishment movement within EU nations.

In particular Greece loathes what the EU has done to it. Indeed Jeremy Corbyn predicted that anti EU sentiment would grow following the EU’s actions against Greece.

Now we have the Italian elections where the Five Star Movement has gained 32.7% of the vote making it the largest single party. They have an antiestablishment, anti imigration position.

Overall the parties that did well were those that were anti EU.

Wind of change eh!!

[rustymotor]

Originally Posted by mbev51

Hi, been keeping abreast of UK politics as best I can, we are halfway through a two month holiday in NZ. TM seems to be doing a reasonable job of keeping her party together, unfortunately she is making very little progress in her negotiations with the EU. It looks like the sort of fudge she wants isn't available, this, as someone has already said, runs the risk of forcing a catastrophic hard brexit.

The EU negotiators must be exasperated.

Yes agree, our government are being very unprofessional about the whole scenario because, they don't want to face the reality of the outcome and even worse they don't want Joe Public to know what that will be hence, no coherent plan.

Let me ask this, does anyone here wake up in the morning and think, oh God I'm in the EU? and being so has effected their day to day life for the past 40 years let's hear it.

[Gate Keeper]

Originally Posted by Borg Warner

Always a pleasure, never a chore. There is moderation and it is carried out when necessary, but there is a clue in the title; Anything Goes. I think the only requirement is that one has to be comfortable with people speaking their mind and likewise. If one wants to call someone a fornicating phallic wombalus then just do it. Discussions also often go off-topic without fear of retribution. Unlike.....

So with that in mind I'll leave my answer here.

I joined LandyZone this morning, thanks for the link. I will use the forum for some technical advice as we have a couple of Land Rovers.

[wraymond]

Originally Posted by rustymotor

Yes agree, our government are being very unprofessional about the whole scenario because, they don't want to face the reality of the outcome and even worse they don't want Joe Public to know what that will be hence, no coherent plan.

Let me ask this, does anyone here wake up in the morning and think, oh God I'm in the EU? and being so has effected their day to day life for the past 40 years let's hear it.

Happy to oblige! I sympathise with your assessment of the current state of play and offer another rationale which might show things from a different perspective. Must be careful to not discuss politics though so this is about perception and subversion of information. By the way, I don't use emoji so assume in the best of intentions!

No, I for one don’t wake up and think, oh god I’m in the EU! I wake up and think ‘why am I still in the EU?’

Membership has affected day to day life over the past 40 years to a far greater extent than we have been told, so part of your assertions are true.

Not being told is precisely why so many people are not aware of the crushing effect of membership. Not least, but among so very very much more, consider the changes to our laws which mysteriously have seen precious little exposure or discussion.

For instance? Much controversy recently about the property rental empire built by that paragon of virtue K. Vaz MP. Such was the concern it was suggested he should be investigated by parliamentary watchdogs, under the ‘Unexplained Wealth’ law, but this has now been ruled out because last year the other parliament in Europe passed a new law exempting, amongst others in similar positions, MP’s from investigation in such matters! Those ‘others’, strangely, include MEP’s and their assistants! Are you happy with that?

That’s the glaring tip of a very large iceberg that's full of black holes. In any other walk of life such elitist protections would be enough to provoke massive objection but vested interests are trying everything they know to preserve a divisive and unelected State.

But regarding your first paragraph above: The allegations of unprofessional conduct are entirely because the government in fact has been completely professional! These charges are brought about by so many who think that they should be told all about the delicate wranglings going on behind scenes but are being kept in the dark. And quite rightly they should be kept in the dark! It’s called negotiating and the government are responsible for the outcome so they keep their day-to-day ploys close to their chests! What on earth do you expect them to otherwise do? Blurt in advance all their strategies?

You assert there is no plan. How do you know? That’s plainly what governments do, have a job to do and get on with. When there is an agreed result there will be an announcement and, fortunately, a vote in Parliament! Just as in every other political, legal and trade parliamentary movement. Or have you decided it's a better idea to want the nation’s business all conducted in public?

If you think they have been unprofessional then so have the other side but you fail to mention that! The government’s position on EU citizens’ rights post-Leaving was put forward by the PM very early on but she was told by Barnier that would not be discussed until the ‘divorce bill’ was finalised. Hence a huge delay, over a year, on a vitally important subject. Then blamed UK for dragging feet!

When there is such a concerted attack from all these resentful individuals (who curiously have huge personal vested interests to protect) and have easy access to the media, there is a strong likelihood that some of the rubbish will stick and be accepted as gospel. Unfortunately they fail miserably to tell the whole truth! A very useful link (above) for Full Facts from Borg Warner gets right to it.

When you see the way they conduct themselves, their private business interests and the protections they afford themselves in preventing internal examination of questionable affairs you begin to realise just how autocratic we have become. Yet they all continue to bleat on about democracy! That's why the principle of self-determination is so vital -we can remove crooks!

[rustymotor]

The point regarding the lack of a coherent plan by our government was in comparison to the legal and contracted arrangements, negotiated and agreed over a period of 40 years. Terms & Conditions signed sealed and delivered with our EU membership.

This is the difficulty as I see it for the EU negotiators, who quite rightly are waving those T & C's in the face of TM DD..wouldn't anyone with a contract?

My other point and perhaps not put so well, we have all lived quite happily in the EU for a very long time however, the scenario SME's and many other business's on both sides of the channel, is one of suspension.

As are the people of NI and the Republic over the possibility of a hard border. Again another issue with no positive outcome.

As far as unscrupulous people taking advantage, there is nothing new there, take off shore bank accounts for example, RBS scandal etc..

The fantastic position the government finds itself in is simple, when it all goes belly up and many become much poorer, the stock answer will be well I told you so and you all voted to leave the EU.

Our economy was well below that of Italy when we joined, it has been good for this country for a long time and yes, it comes with a price tag however, IMO it would have been prudent to remain with a re negotiated package.

[Darcydog]

Originally Posted by rustymotor

Yes agree, our government are being very unprofessional about the whole scenario because, they don't want to face the reality of the outcome and even worse they don't want Joe Public to know what that will be hence, no coherent plan.

Let me ask this, does anyone here wake up in the morning and think, oh God I'm in the EU? and being so has effected their day to day life for the past 40 years let's hear it.

Goodness - where to start!! - I’ll have a go

EURO
Whilst UK not in the Euro - it has been proved to contribute to low growth rates within the EU. And as a financially reasonably astute guy - the debacle that is the Euro bothers me - a lot!!

AUSTERITY
Since 2008 the EU has pressured Southern European countries to effect spending cuts to meet arbitrary deficit targets. This has caused prolonged economic stagnation. This REALLY bothers me on several levels.

NET MIGRATION
Compared to the points based system of the likes of Australia, what the EU inflicts on us does us no favours whatsoever. I worry about our kids and their futures if the EU insists on the lowest common denominator dive to the bottom.

INEFFICIENT POLICIES
One example - there are many others - 40% of EU spending is on the Common Agricultural Policy. This distorts markets, causes higher prices and dumps excess onto the Third World thereby destroying their agriculture. This is nothing short of a CRIME!!

And yes!! - it does bother me - again on so many levels!!!

COST
The net cost is about £7billion a year to the U.K.- we are one of only 5 net contributors out of the entire 28. One of the reasons the EU is being so intransigent is because all net contributor countries seem to recognise the net cost to their economies and do NOT want the £7billion we paid to be placed on THEIR bill!!!

I’m not bothered about that at all.

FUTURE TAXES
The EU announced a Financial Transaction Tax - FTT - that would have had no effect on the other 27 members at all but a devastating effect on the Worlds Financial Centre - London!

The EU saw this tax as a way of propping up their failing Euro - they had no sympathy or empathy for the negative effect on the U.K. at all.

Thankfully - we voted to leave - so this is another bit of EU muppetry I’m not bothered about.

In summary - I see myself very much as a European. I think what the rich nations do to the Souther European nations by extended austerity is awful. I do not see the EU as being anything to do with the wonderful European Nations I know and love.

Those who support the EU, in contrast, love control.

[Gate Keeper]

Originally Posted by Borg Warner

Well done. You'll need to introduce yourself first of all as they can get a little twitchy with folks who just ask for advice first thing.

Take it you have a proper Landy, not one of them hippo things?

AG is my prefered area nowadays, it brings a smile to my face and time flies when you are having fun.

See you there.

Thanks for the heads up. I won't be asking anything first off as I am sure I can glean the information I need, from the researching the boards. Not sure about a hippo car. That must be a tease One Landy is 40 yrs old and the other is a tad newer. I saw the Brexit thread, over 5000 posts. That will take some getting through.
Cheers Gary