Front lower ball joint separation

YMGF · 26th September 2020, 16:30

Being a glutton for punishment, and having done the rear end, I'm going to take out and refurb the front sub frame. Following Haynes, I'm splitting the lower ball joint from the hub carrier. I've drifted out the bolt and levered down on the arm. The joint has now separated by 8-10mm but is now binding in the hub. It will go back in fairly easily and come out again easily, but binds up always after coming out that 8-10mm.
Has anyone had this and is there a trick to getting it to come fully out? Should I raise the suspension under the hub to create more clearance do you think?
Thanks,
Michael.

Eddy600 · 26th September 2020, 18:37

Have an assistant wiggle the steering wheel side to side whilst prying down on the arm should pop straight out, failing that an exhaust clamp around the arm and a suitable piece of wood for leverage.

Retap · 26th September 2020, 19:00

Hi, your braver than me taking the sub frame off outright or have way to much free time lol tbh if i had a time and a place to do it probably would...

Having just done battle with replacing my second lower arm and winning in the end i thought would mention what my little technique is and yeah this is not the orthodoxy and somebody much more experienced is likely to come along and suck air in through there teeth at this but Haynes can be a bit proper in its guidance imo

Chisel to split the gap a bit in that lower hub hole then what i do/did is put bit of wood between jack and brake disc bottom whilst placing a screwdriver in the edge of the disc through the calliper edge to stop movement cos it will roll sideways off the jack otherwise and then jack the hub up a bit like that very carefully, doesnt need to be to far up! Also watch your stands as dont want to lift the car up and especially not from the brake disc.

Now as I was replacing lower arm anyway I use something to carefully tap the lower arm out of the lower hub hole if it resists, in fact sometimes a wiggle from side to side and it just drops out like magic. Then if removing lower arm outright have a cup of coffee to psych self up to fight the ball joint into the sub frame for the rest of the afternoon but eventually get that ball joint to pop out using a pitch fork ball joint separator and jack again lined up just right to ensure the pitch fork has down force on the sub frame and up force on the lower arm joint into the sub frame.

RogerHeinz57 · 26th September 2020, 20:08

Many folks forget that he ball joint sits at an angle away from verticle, thus the hub assy will need to be pushed inwards as the load is released from the joint by pushing down on the arm. Pealing the flange apart can help, but cautiously because the jaws can become distorted to a point where the new shape is unsuitable, and will allow knocking and premature joint wear.
So I would suggest the following -
Release track rod end from hub carrier.
Refit hub nut if removed and tighten slightly to remove any shaft slack movement.
Spray joint and pinch areas with plusgas or similar.
A good drift tool about 12" long
and a good hammer.
Rotate the front strut to one angle and apply a good blow to the drift, rotate the strut to the opposite direction and with drift apply a blow as close to the ball joint as possible.
Between each hit, try pushing the hub carrier inwards and note if the arm moves down any further, apply more torque to the hub nut if necessary and continue with these techniques. It will let go eventually. I will admit that some are total sods to release, but dont let it beat you.
Hope this helps and good luck.

cbr1100xx · 27th September 2020, 08:25

If you're removing the whole subframe, disconnect everything then when you start to lower the subframe the pins should just drop away from the holes as the arms are still attached to the subframe, if they dont all that is needed will be a little wiggle on the hub.

Stan

YMGF · 27th September 2020, 11:55

Many thanks all for your replies. Unfortunately I'm not able to get out there today but will have a go next weekend and let you know how it goes.

drewbie · 27th September 2020, 12:59

Ditto, undo trackrod ball joints and drop links and you should have no problems.

YMGF · 5th October 2020, 17:24

Just wanted to report back. Subframe now removed and, as above, joints just came away easily as it was being lowered. Thanks everyone for your help on this.
Now to deal with the subframe!!

26th September 2020, 16:30	#1
YMGF Regular poster Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Jul 2020 Location: Oxford Posts: 68 Thanks: 33 Thanked 12 Times in 8 Posts	Front lower ball joint separation Being a glutton for punishment, and having done the rear end, I'm going to take out and refurb the front sub frame. Following Haynes, I'm splitting the lower ball joint from the hub carrier. I've drifted out the bolt and levered down on the arm. The joint has now separated by 8-10mm but is now binding in the hub. It will go back in fairly easily and come out again easily, but binds up always after coming out that 8-10mm. Has anyone had this and is there a trick to getting it to come fully out? Should I raise the suspension under the hub to create more clearance do you think? Thanks, Michael.

26th September 2020, 19:00	#3
Retap Loves to post MG ZT-T CDTi Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Lincs Posts: 288 Thanks: 73 Thanked 51 Times in 44 Posts	Hi, your braver than me taking the sub frame off outright or have way to much free time lol tbh if i had a time and a place to do it probably would... Having just done battle with replacing my second lower arm and winning in the end i thought would mention what my little technique is and yeah this is not the orthodoxy and somebody much more experienced is likely to come along and suck air in through there teeth at this but Haynes can be a bit proper in its guidance imo Chisel to split the gap a bit in that lower hub hole then what i do/did is put bit of wood between jack and brake disc bottom whilst placing a screwdriver in the edge of the disc through the calliper edge to stop movement cos it will roll sideways off the jack otherwise and then jack the hub up a bit like that very carefully, doesnt need to be to far up! Also watch your stands as dont want to lift the car up and especially not from the brake disc. Now as I was replacing lower arm anyway I use something to carefully tap the lower arm out of the lower hub hole if it resists, in fact sometimes a wiggle from side to side and it just drops out like magic. Then if removing lower arm outright have a cup of coffee to psych self up to fight the ball joint into the sub frame for the rest of the afternoon but eventually get that ball joint to pop out using a pitch fork ball joint separator and jack again lined up just right to ensure the pitch fork has down force on the sub frame and up force on the lower arm joint into the sub frame. Last edited by Retap; 26th September 2020 at 19:02..

27th September 2020, 08:25	#5
cbr1100xx Gets stuck in VW touareg Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: dunsop bridge Posts: 870 Thanks: 225 Thanked 414 Times in 235 Posts	If you're removing the whole subframe, disconnect everything then when you start to lower the subframe the pins should just drop away from the holes as the arms are still attached to the subframe, if they dont all that is needed will be a little wiggle on the hub. Stan __________________ WE WERE BOTH BORN ON THE 4th of JULY CAR DIED 15/11/2022---I'M STILL GOING (JUST)

26th September 2020, 18:37	#2
Eddy600 Loves to post Rover, MG Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Halifax Posts: 275 Thanks: 19 Thanked 77 Times in 61 Posts	Have an assistant wiggle the steering wheel side to side whilst prying down on the arm should pop straight out, failing that an exhaust clamp around the arm and a suitable piece of wood for leverage.

26th September 2020, 20:08	#4
RogerHeinz57 I really should get out more....... A Reasonably Priced Car Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Burton Latimer Posts: 2,530 Thanks: 408 Thanked 1,064 Times in 712 Posts	Many folks forget that he ball joint sits at an angle away from verticle, thus the hub assy will need to be pushed inwards as the load is released from the joint by pushing down on the arm. Pealing the flange apart can help, but cautiously because the jaws can become distorted to a point where the new shape is unsuitable, and will allow knocking and premature joint wear. So I would suggest the following - Release track rod end from hub carrier. Refit hub nut if removed and tighten slightly to remove any shaft slack movement. Spray joint and pinch areas with plusgas or similar. A good drift tool about 12" long and a good hammer. Rotate the front strut to one angle and apply a good blow to the drift, rotate the strut to the opposite direction and with drift apply a blow as close to the ball joint as possible. Between each hit, try pushing the hub carrier inwards and note if the arm moves down any further, apply more torque to the hub nut if necessary and continue with these techniques. It will let go eventually. I will admit that some are total sods to release, but dont let it beat you. Hope this helps and good luck.

27th September 2020, 11:55	#6
YMGF Regular poster Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Jul 2020 Location: Oxford Posts: 68 Thanks: 33 Thanked 12 Times in 8 Posts	Many thanks all for your replies. Unfortunately I'm not able to get out there today but will have a go next weekend and let you know how it goes.

27th September 2020, 12:59	#7
drewbie Loves to post Rover 75 Club SE 1.8T 03 plate. Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Tenterden Posts: 277 Thanks: 28 Thanked 41 Times in 37 Posts	Ditto, undo trackrod ball joints and drop links and you should have no problems.

5th October 2020, 17:24	#8
YMGF Regular poster Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Jul 2020 Location: Oxford Posts: 68 Thanks: 33 Thanked 12 Times in 8 Posts	Just wanted to report back. Subframe now removed and, as above, joints just came away easily as it was being lowered. Thanks everyone for your help on this. Now to deal with the subframe!!