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Old 27th September 2021, 17:50   #1
SCP440
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Default Electric handbrake

Who ever thought this was a good idea? He needs shooting and hanging.

I helped a friend with his car today with such a device. When you switch the car off the handbrake is automatically applied and this is the problem. You switch it off and you either are lucky enough to have an electronic device to put the handbrake in service mode and wind the pistons back or while it is running unplug the motors so the car cant put the brake on.

The first way is the preferable but not every one knows some one who has one of these devices and the second way can bring up a fault code that can only be cleared by the above tool.

You would presume if it was winding back the pistons electrically it would do the job properly, oh no you still need a piston wind back tool and because the motor is in the system was a complete mare and took a lot of patience, no wonder the dealer reckoned it was a 3 hour job and they have done it many times before.

If I was buying a newer car and there was a switch instead of a lever I would seriously consider my options as the car I did today had only covered 20k miles from new so this is going to be an ongoing job.

The more I see new cars the less I like them.
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Old 27th September 2021, 18:42   #2
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You can also have the car roll back as the auto release kicks in and there is not enough power to drive up a hill. BMW X3 or X5 is guilty of this

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Old 27th September 2021, 20:52   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCP440 View Post
Who ever thought this was a good idea? He needs shooting and hanging.

I helped a friend with his car today with such a device. When you switch the car off the handbrake is automatically applied and this is the problem. You switch it off and you either are lucky enough to have an electronic device to put the handbrake in service mode and wind the pistons back or while it is running unplug the motors so the car cant put the brake on.

The first way is the preferable but not every one knows some one who has one of these devices and the second way can bring up a fault code that can only be cleared by the above tool.

You would presume if it was winding back the pistons electrically it would do the job properly, oh no you still need a piston wind back tool and because the motor is in the system was a complete mare and took a lot of patience, no wonder the dealer reckoned it was a 3 hour job and they have done it many times before.

If I was buying a newer car and there was a switch instead of a lever I would seriously consider my options as the car I did today had only covered 20k miles from new so this is going to be an ongoing job.

The more I see new cars the less I like them.
I never liked any of them. That's why with 20 cars on my property, the newest was built in 2008. Hope they last me out!
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Old 28th September 2021, 08:27   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCP440 View Post
Who ever thought this was a good idea? ......
The more I see new cars the less I like them.
The folks that believe that the art of driving should be dragged down to the level that an imbecile will be able to do it.

Why would you bother with all that revs/clutch biting point/hand on the handbrake and hold and release and balance the power and clutch ...... and off you go up the hill when some gizmo can do it all for you?

And the bean counters will love you 'cus it's just bolt a bit on and connect it up to the electrics without all that faff (i.e. cost) with brackets and cables and the like.

And the recovery firms love it 'cus if when it packs up it locks the wheels solid you're well and truly stuck (been there, done that).

And the dealers love it 'cus the replacement parts are £££'s and then there's the labour at £££££££££££'s and the electronic wizardry to set it up and make it all work at more £££££'s (fortunately mine was under warranty but I saw the internal invoice ).

As my old Physics teacher used to say....QED.
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Old 28th September 2021, 08:53   #5
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Electric handbrakes are the dread of my local garage as are head light bulbs that need the front bumper to be removed to change. To top it off then having to tell the computer you have fitted a new bulb !
My newest car is my '91 Volvo 940, easy to work on and built to last.
My local scrapyard is full of modern vehicles under 10 years old awaiting the crusher. They are disposable items, an environmental disaster .
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Old 28th September 2021, 08:55   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyN01 View Post
The folks that believe that the art of driving should be dragged down to the level that an imbecile will be able to do it.

Why would you bother with all that revs/clutch biting point/hand on the handbrake and hold and release and balance the power and clutch ...... and off you go up the hill when some gizmo can do it all for you?

And the bean counters will love you 'cus it's just bolt a bit on and connect it up to the electrics without all that faff (i.e. cost) with brackets and cables and the like.

And the recovery firms love it 'cus if when it packs up it locks the wheels solid you're well and truly stuck (been there, done that).

And the dealers love it 'cus the replacement parts are £££'s and then there's the labour at £££££££££££'s and the electronic wizardry to set it up and make it all work at more £££££'s (fortunately mine was under warranty but I saw the internal invoice ).

As my old Physics teacher used to say....QED.
There's a lot of tin foil hat stuff going on around here lately.

It is just seen as progress - there is no agenda or conspiracy to make more money.
I am sure the technology and components behind an electronic handbrake are actually more expensive to produce than a conventional mechanical parking brake hence why 'base models' and cheaper motors on the market today are still using a hand operated parking brake.

Don't forget, the vast majority of drivers on the road do not and will never do maintenance on their own vehicles so they couldn't care less about how easy it is to service their braking system.

If they break down, they will call their recovery service and it will be the recovery operator who has to worry about how to move the car.

Consumers just want the latest technology in exchange for their coin and a push button rather than a hand operated lever is seen as the 'in thing' so naturally, it will be adopted widely if that is what the majority of consumers seek.

Many features have been introduced to cars over the years that were seen as unnecessarily 'increasing costs and reducing reliability' such as when disc brakes replaced drum brakes or synchromesh started to be built into run of the mill gearboxes.

It was all in the name of progress whether it was asked for or not, it became standard and the industry quickly caught up and the technology was developed, improved and made affordable and more serviceable.
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Old 28th September 2021, 09:29   #7
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There is a difference. Parts of the braking system are consumables, so it is a regular high cost that instead of a 20 minute job to change pads, it ends up as a workshop task.

Disc brakes actually reduced maintenance, i.e. no regular adjustments required, so the initial extra cost is recouped many times over. In fact I don't think there is much difference in initial production costs.

Synchromesh just makes life marginally easier, it's not a ball breaker. Warn synchro just means changing gear with a bit less haste or maybe double de-clutching. It is not difficult to do or something that affects vehicle safety and needs an immediate resolution.

What is the reason for designing cars some of which take several hours to change a headlight bulb? Is automatic dipping of headlights effective or necessary? Time after time We get blinded by super-bright lights dipping after the blinding damage is done. Very rarely do they dip at road junctions with the result another unfortunate driver at right angles suffers.

Pointless design over function is expensive, un-necessary and reduces the economic lifespsan of a vehicle due to increasing costs and decreasing reliability.

Last edited by polinsteve; 28th September 2021 at 09:33..
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Old 28th September 2021, 09:31   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norman2CV View Post
My local scrapyard is full of modern vehicles under 10 years old awaiting the crusher. They are disposable items, an environmental disaster .
But this has always been the case.
My local scrappy is full and the cars range from early 90's to yes, I suppose about 2010/2011 but that is nothing new.

I know people that had to scrap their Itals and Montegos after 7 years because the corrosion had got so bad.

Regardless of the generation of vehicle, cars to most people will always be viewed as an appliance to be used hard and then disposed of.
Not everyone is like us - I don't know many people that form an emotional attachment to cars and I know even fewer people who are happy (or have the knowledge/facilities/tools) to do their own servicing.
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Old 28th September 2021, 09:40   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polinsteve View Post
There is a difference. Parts of the braking system are consumables, so it is a regular high cost that instead of a 20 minute job to change pads, it ends up as a workshop task.

Disc brakes actually reduced maintenance, i.e. no regular adjustments required, so the initial extra cost is recouped many times over.

Synchromesh just makes life marginally easier, it's not a ball breaker. Warn synchro just means changing gear with a bit less haste or maybe double de-clutching. It is not difficult to do or something that affects vehicle safety and needs an immediate resolution.

What is the reason for designing cars some of which take several hours to change a headlight bulb? Is automatic dipping of headlights effective or necessary? Time after time We get blinded by super-bright lights dipping after the blinding damage is done.
Very rarely do they dip at road junctions with the result another unfortunate driver at right angles suffers.

Pointless design over function is expensive, un-necessary and reduces the economic lifespsan of a vehicle due to increasing costs and decreasing reliability.
I do agree that the difficulty of changing a bulb is not something to be lauded.
I have a 2019 Mazda 6 and I decided to change the DRL bulbs for something brighter - after being perplexed for a while it turns out you have to remove the arch liner on each side (or at least pull it away) but it was still a struggle.
It was completely unnecessary for it to be that complicated and it left me dreading doing that job again.

However, nobody designing that car thought "Ah let's make this bulb hard to change, we will rake in the cash."

It's just a 'form over function' type situation.
If you design the wings, bumper, headlight and bonnet to look and fit together a certain way, a compromise has to be made and most customers would prefer a sharp looking vehicle to one that is easy to change a bulb on.

Unfortunately, that is just a fact of the world we live in - style sells.
Otherwise, everyone would still be driving around in a Lada.

I can't argue the other points as I don't disagree.
I've not been on the receiving end of being blinded by a poor auto-dipping system.

There are still people that say you're not a proper driver if you're using a car with synchromesh. But I'm sure most of us would agree (unless we were being really flippant) that having synchro on your daily driver is just a sensible part of life.

Last edited by Gigagator; 28th September 2021 at 09:48..
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Old 28th September 2021, 09:48   #10
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Having the sex9ndaey fuse box under the main fuse box as in some.meganes may make life easier for the assembly line, it bore no thought to the technicians (not mechanic) who had to trace a fault or simply replace a fuse. But it did add to the dealers bottom.line for time. 2 hours labour to change a 5 amp fuse?

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