Master Cylinder Again?

Placebo · 12th December 2013, 19:33

Well I hope someone can tell me I’m wrong but I think I might need my third master in less than a year of owning a 75. Quite suddenly today I find I have a couple of inches of clutch pedal travel before there’s any resistance. A quick look at the master cylinder suggests that there’s fluid coming from somewhere, there’s certainly some on the rubber boot but it doesn’t appear to be coming from the hole for the pushrod. At the moment it’s still drivable, but the gear change is poor, although to be fair it always has been.

The question is what to do in the short and long term. If I top it up will it see me through xmas? Should I claim another LUK cylinder under guarantee, which I suspect will take a while and leave me without a car, as I’m assuming I’ll have to return it before they will send me a replacement, or am I best to bite the bullet and buy a TAZU master cylinder tomorrow in the hope that I can find time to fit it before heading south to London for xmas? Any thoughts would be appreciated.

DMGRS · 12th December 2013, 19:41

The Tazu is definitely the sensible option - I have them @ £69.99 however I'm waiting for my next shipment. You chaps have run me dry again!

Metal Master

It's the way I'd go - I had the LUK item, and forcing Euro Car Parts to accept my return was 'interesting'. In the end I had to buy another, fit that, remove the faulty one and post it back to them for a refund.
I've fitted one in person this week for a customer, and it feels much more 'solid' than the plastic item. Quite easy to fit too.

Edit: Yes, it does look like yours is leaking.

Placebo · 13th December 2013, 07:20

Hi Matt

Surprised to hear that you suggest giving up with LUK and recommend the TAZU master…….

On a serious note when do you expect to have them back in stock?

Unfortunately the failing master isn’t the only issue I have with the clutch, often when I draw away in first I get a very pronounced judder, or alternatively little happens and then the clutch takes up with a thump. I had thought it might be the lower engine mount but its replacement hasn’t solved the problem. Certainly it doesn’t happen all the time and I just wonder if the slave cylinder is a bit sticky? I’ve lived with the problem for the last 11 months but it would be nice to find a solution, although the thought of dropping the gearbox fills me with horror.

DMGRS · 17th December 2013, 12:19

Hello, sorry for the late reply - I've only just seen this thread was updated.

I'm expecting stock either tomorrow or Thursday at the latest - I've got a good few orders for them waiting, however I'm having 20 delivered so plenty to spare.

The LUK is that bad, I'm actually back in the market for a ZT190 now the metal version is available! The main reason I have an Auto is because of the (literally) hundreds of pounds I've spent on the awful plastic system.

Your judder just sounds like 'normal' clutch judder to me - I know the 75/ZT CDTi was fitted with a clutch that had no springs originally (it was assumed the DMF would take care of damping any judder, however I don't quite believe that, as with a properly sprung clutch plate you can tell the difference IMO). As you're probably aware, older clutches are prone to judder from uneven wear (or flywheel wear) but a cheaper new-ish clutch can also start to suffer, too.
Unfortunately the only cure is replacement, however I'd hold your horses for now as I'm expecting a metal Slave cylinder to land with me at some point in the New Year. Definitely worth waiting for...

Placebo · 17th December 2013, 12:59

Hi Matt

Thanks for coming back to me. There have been some further developments, in that I’ve had the car up on axle stands and there is definitely some fluid at the bottom of the bell housing, as much as I’ve tried to come to a different conclusion I suspect that the slave cylinder is away. That said I’ve taken the master off, there’s certainly fluid in the reservoir, but the fluid at the base of the bell housing must have come from somewhere in the system.

So I’m currently thinking that I’ll need to replace the lot, although I was aware of the imminent arrival of the metal slave, when do you think its going to be available, if it is in the next few weeks then I may hold off. I’m away over Christmas and New Year so wouldn’t be planning to do anything until the second or third week of January. However do I want to be a guinea pig for the new slave?

I must admit I was wondering if the slave has been slowly weeping since I’ve had the car and that some fluid from the slave was getting onto the clutch causing the infrequent judder, although I haven’t seen much in the forum posts to suggest that anyone else has had a similar problem.

Cheers

Gavin

Lates · 17th December 2013, 13:06

My first master lasted 99k and only changed it because it looked "ticky tacky" and the replacement has now covered 26k. They are not the best but think I have been lucky.

The Tazu cylinder looks ok and made well, but imho (without starting a great debate !) needs a little more work.

DMGRS · 17th December 2013, 13:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lates

My first master lasted 99k and only changed it because it looked "ticky tacky" and the replacement has now covered 26k. They are not the best but think I have been lucky.

The Tazu cylinder looks ok and made well, but imho (without starting a great debate !) needs a little more work.

The pipe routing from the Master and through the bulkhead hole is a little tricky - I fitted one last week in around an hour. A flexible pipe would have been good.
I'm happy enough to sell them given I went through 2 LUK Master cylinders in a year - and they're damn expensive.

Lates · 17th December 2013, 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMGRS

The pipe routing from the Master and through the bulkhead hole is a little tricky - I fitted one last week in around an hour. A flexible pipe would have been good.
I'm happy enough to sell them given I went through 2 LUK Master cylinders in a year - and they're damn expensive.

Agree a bit fiddly, outlet connected to the other boss or flexy pipe would be easier on the install.

rasa · 17th December 2013, 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Placebo

Hi Matt

Thanks for coming back to me. There have been some further developments, in that I’ve had the car up on axle stands and there is definitely some fluid at the bottom of the bell housing, as much as I’ve tried to come to a different conclusion I suspect that the slave cylinder is away. That said I’ve taken the master off, there’s certainly fluid in the reservoir, but the fluid at the base of the bell housing must have come from somewhere in the system.

So I’m currently thinking that I’ll need to replace the lot, although I was aware of the imminent arrival of the metal slave, when do you think its going to be available, if it is in the next few weeks then I may hold off. I’m away over Christmas and New Year so wouldn’t be planning to do anything until the second or third week of January. However do I want to be a guinea pig for the new slave?

I must admit I was wondering if the slave has been slowly weeping since I’ve had the car and that some fluid from the slave was getting onto the clutch causing the infrequent judder, although I haven’t seen much in the forum posts to suggest that anyone else has had a similar problem.

Cheers

Gavin

my master leaked and also from bell housing , replaced clutch and slave , never replaced master and all was fine, the master seems to leak when the slave deteriorates.

Tom Byrne · 21st December 2013, 10:10

Hi everyone out there,I have this week replaced a new clutch slave cylinder ,the old one was mashed,this was fitted by a "mechanic",so after bleeding the system there was still pedal travel so he inspected the master cyl. and for some reason he removed the gossemer (I believe this causes a vacuum in the system and helps the pedal return) and then for some other unknown reason he cut a hole in it,I have no idea why he did this.the fluid is pumping out of the top of the reservoir,there is no other obvious leak from anywhere else on the cylinder . I have tried loads of places to get this part but everyone just wants to sell me a new cylinder.If there is anyone out there that can help me out with this major problem for me I would be very grateful,I am not bothered if it's an old one so long as it dose not have a hole in it.Thanks in anticipation Tom

12th December 2013, 19:41	#2
DMGRS Discount MG Rover Spares Rover 75 CDTi, 2x MG ZS180 Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Hythe, Southampton Posts: 11,320 Thanks: 456 Thanked 3,377 Times in 2,027 Posts	The Tazu is definitely the sensible option - I have them @ £69.99 however I'm waiting for my next shipment. You chaps have run me dry again! Metal Master It's the way I'd go - I had the LUK item, and forcing Euro Car Parts to accept my return was 'interesting'. In the end I had to buy another, fit that, remove the faulty one and post it back to them for a refund. I've fitted one in person this week for a customer, and it feels much more 'solid' than the plastic item. Quite easy to fit too. Edit: Yes, it does look like yours is leaking. __________________ Your trusted MG Rover specialist! Tel: 02380 001133 / Email: [email protected] We now have a 'chat' function on our site for even quicker replies. Give it a try! Remember - discount code FORUM5 for 5% off

17th December 2013, 12:19	#4
DMGRS Discount MG Rover Spares Rover 75 CDTi, 2x MG ZS180 Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Hythe, Southampton Posts: 11,320 Thanks: 456 Thanked 3,377 Times in 2,027 Posts	Hello, sorry for the late reply - I've only just seen this thread was updated. I'm expecting stock either tomorrow or Thursday at the latest - I've got a good few orders for them waiting, however I'm having 20 delivered so plenty to spare. The LUK is that bad, I'm actually back in the market for a ZT190 now the metal version is available! The main reason I have an Auto is because of the (literally) hundreds of pounds I've spent on the awful plastic system. Your judder just sounds like 'normal' clutch judder to me - I know the 75/ZT CDTi was fitted with a clutch that had no springs originally (it was assumed the DMF would take care of damping any judder, however I don't quite believe that, as with a properly sprung clutch plate you can tell the difference IMO). As you're probably aware, older clutches are prone to judder from uneven wear (or flywheel wear) but a cheaper new-ish clutch can also start to suffer, too. Unfortunately the only cure is replacement, however I'd hold your horses for now as I'm expecting a metal Slave cylinder to land with me at some point in the New Year. Definitely worth waiting for... __________________ Your trusted MG Rover specialist! Tel: 02380 001133 / Email: [email protected] We now have a 'chat' function on our site for even quicker replies. Give it a try! Remember - discount code FORUM5 for 5% off

21st December 2013, 10:10	#10
Tom Byrne Newbie Rover 75 Join Date: May 2012 Location: Irlam Posts: 10 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	clutch master cylinder "Gossemer" Hi everyone out there,I have this week replaced a new clutch slave cylinder ,the old one was mashed,this was fitted by a "mechanic",so after bleeding the system there was still pedal travel so he inspected the master cyl. and for some reason he removed the gossemer (I believe this causes a vacuum in the system and helps the pedal return) and then for some other unknown reason he cut a hole in it,I have no idea why he did this.the fluid is pumping out of the top of the reservoir,there is no other obvious leak from anywhere else on the cylinder . I have tried loads of places to get this part but everyone just wants to sell me a new cylinder.If there is anyone out there that can help me out with this major problem for me I would be very grateful,I am not bothered if it's an old one so long as it dose not have a hole in it.Thanks in anticipation Tom

13th December 2013, 07:20	#3
Placebo Regular poster Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Perth Posts: 58 Thanks: 5 Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts	Hi Matt Surprised to hear that you suggest giving up with LUK and recommend the TAZU master……. On a serious note when do you expect to have them back in stock? Unfortunately the failing master isn’t the only issue I have with the clutch, often when I draw away in first I get a very pronounced judder, or alternatively little happens and then the clutch takes up with a thump. I had thought it might be the lower engine mount but its replacement hasn’t solved the problem. Certainly it doesn’t happen all the time and I just wonder if the slave cylinder is a bit sticky? I’ve lived with the problem for the last 11 months but it would be nice to find a solution, although the thought of dropping the gearbox fills me with horror.

17th December 2013, 12:59	#5
Placebo Regular poster Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Perth Posts: 58 Thanks: 5 Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts	Hi Matt Thanks for coming back to me. There have been some further developments, in that I’ve had the car up on axle stands and there is definitely some fluid at the bottom of the bell housing, as much as I’ve tried to come to a different conclusion I suspect that the slave cylinder is away. That said I’ve taken the master off, there’s certainly fluid in the reservoir, but the fluid at the base of the bell housing must have come from somewhere in the system. So I’m currently thinking that I’ll need to replace the lot, although I was aware of the imminent arrival of the metal slave, when do you think its going to be available, if it is in the next few weeks then I may hold off. I’m away over Christmas and New Year so wouldn’t be planning to do anything until the second or third week of January. However do I want to be a guinea pig for the new slave? I must admit I was wondering if the slave has been slowly weeping since I’ve had the car and that some fluid from the slave was getting onto the clutch causing the infrequent judder, although I haven’t seen much in the forum posts to suggest that anyone else has had a similar problem. Cheers Gavin

17th December 2013, 13:06	#6
Lates This is my second home Jaguar XE Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Coventry Posts: 4,321 Thanks: 56 Thanked 59 Times in 55 Posts	My first master lasted 99k and only changed it because it looked "ticky tacky" and the replacement has now covered 26k. They are not the best but think I have been lucky. The Tazu cylinder looks ok and made well, but imho (without starting a great debate !) needs a little more work.