Water Loss KV6...Again...

[gramshep]

I know this is a discussion that has been had many times and hundreds of wise words have been written (and read) on it, but I am flummoxed.
2003 ZTT 190 KV6: I lose water and i get "mayo" and condensation in the oil filler cap as well.
All the pipes have been changed and checked, no water in the V and a brand new thermostat kit from DMGRS. So, next new oil cooler courtesy DMGRS, changed and this briefly cured it no mayo and no water loss... I was SO pleased to have fixed it....
Then two weeks ago it all started again.

The oil appears clean no water in the dipstick... no oil in the header tank

So tried new header tank cap... Tried the "head gasket test" Rev up from cold and see if system pressurises..NO. SO frustrating... so, on the off chance I have been sold a faulty oil cooler (unlikely) I am taking the cooler out of the system to see if that works.
Its 143000 miles, we have had it for ten years and I do not want to lose it but, if I cant trust it to keep its water in then she'll have to go...

The only thing I can see or guess is that it has had K-Seal in it, gold flecks in system... but heater works etc.

BUT Have I missed something..... or might it be, despite my test, HGF????? ANY ideas gratefully received

Thank you.

[chris75]

If you are thinking head gasket then you need to test conclusively . Do a compression test on all 6 cylinders ; the rear bank is a pain , but so be it .
Also invest in one of these or similar to check for gas leakage :http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CAR-COMBUS...AAAOSwax5YwnYH
Cheap but it works Rev the engine and if gas CO2 is present the test liquid changes quickly from blue to yellow = DOOMED

[Typhoon190]

Check the breather system thoroughly. If the small hole in either of the cam covers is blocked the symptoms will appear quickly.

The inlet manifold gaskets leaking will also cause the symptoms you explain.

[gramshep]

Originally Posted by Typhoon190

Check the breather system thoroughly. If the small hole in either of the cam covers is blocked the symptoms will appear quickly.

The inlet manifold gaskets leaking will also cause the symptoms you explain.

Is it possible to blow through with compressed air to clear the cam cover or would they have to come off to check do you know.? Thanks for inlet manifold gasket advice I will change them.G

[SD1too]

Graham,

Unlike some 1.8 K series, the KV6 has MLS head gaskets fitted at the factory. They are not susceptible to routine failure, so a head gasket being responsible is extremely unlikely.

How often do you use the car and is it mainly for very short journeys? Mayonnaise in the oil filler cap can result from the condensation which itself is created in cold conditions.

I don't understand your so-called "head gasket test". No engine cooling system will pressurise simply by revving the engine from cold. It is the rise in temperature in a sealed system which raises the pressure.

I see no evidence that your oil cooler is at fault.

The only thing I can see or guess is that it has had K-Seal in it, gold flecks in system...

Ahh, now we're getting somewhere! My money is on that being the underlying cause. I'd suggest embarking on a systematic flushing exercise using a suitable product. I believe that MGJohn uses Holts Speedflush but he drives the car up to normal operating temperature before draining, and repeats this process.

Originally Posted by gramshep

Is it possible to blow through with compressed air to clear the cam cover ..

I've had blocked pinholes in the cam covers and it didn't cause mayonnaise in my engine. It does affect performance though. I'd leave that job for another day if I were you, but don't use compressed air. Do it properly and reliably.

Thanks for inlet manifold gasket advice I will change them.

When you renewed the thermostat, did you use the conventional or "keyhole" method?

Simon

[gramshep]

Hi Simon thanx for getting back to me. :lowdown:

The 'Head Gasket Test' I read in one of the HGF threads on here. (I must admit to a certain disbelief in its veracity)but straws are being clutched!!

It is short runs at the moment with condensation build up in the oil cap so i'll take it out for longer thrash later and buy some flushing product as well.

The thermostat was key hole method, (still have the scars) but it is all dry as in the V.

I ran Speedflush through it when I fitted the oil cooler and filled it as per MG method. As I say it was all perfect for a short while. Cant believe the new cooler is at fault. Old one definitely had hole in it as the car was run for along time with no under tray so was holed by a stone I would think...

This may sound daft but the coolant pipes always feel empty! So next job then a thorough flushing.... Ill do it twice.

Is it worth changing the inlet manifold gaskets and checking the pinholes do you think? They were last done about 8 years ago when the new plastic manifold went on to cure the rattle.
g

[Lord of Hog]

Just thought I'd have my twopenny-worth on my favourite subject.

You didn't say how much mayo you had under your cap ... titter ye not! If it's just a little and most of your use is short distance / cool engine then it's probably nothing to lose sleep over.

Secondly in the recent hot spell I found that a couple of my hoses had minor leaks at attachment points as a result of the clips expanding a little. These were all sorted out with half a turn of a screwdriver. If I hadn't gone looking for them they wouldn't have been noticed given the way the cooling hoses are concealed under and behind other components and the propensity of water to flow downhill.

As Simon correctly observes, HGF without abuse or lack of maintenance is a pretty much unknown phenomenon with the KV6. In this respect it's an easier prospect tracking down the cause of coolant loss than on the 1.8 because it's almost certain that the lost coolant will be on the outside. All you have to do is remove enough under the bonnet to see where!

[gramshep]

Thank you all for your help. Especially Simon, many thanks for the advice and free ideas you have so kindly helped me with.
So I took your advice bought Wynns Radflush and went for it. Once it had done its thing I then flushed as much fresh water as as I could through the system.

Interestingly what drained out in the initial emptying was NOT 7.5 litres and this is the the problem I have; I can only get 5 litres back in.

I did the fill exactly as you pointed out, including the engine drain but I am left with this 2.5/3 litres of coolant that should go in. I ran it and The IPK says it went up to 100C but the fan didn't kick in (it works on the demist test though).

Do you think I need to get it vacuum filled as I might have some mighty airlock in it. And I am not so much losing coolant as "slowly topping up" the system. Sorry for such along ramble but any ideas gratefully recd
Graham

[minimutly]

Are the vent holes in the header tank open and unblocked?
There are two of these, one you can see in the neck, one just around the bend, under it, which you can't see. I don't think you can bleed it if these are blocked.

[SD1too]

Originally Posted by gramshep

Do you think I need to get it vacuum filled ...

No I don't Graham. I have always refilled mine using the conventional method and, like you, I've found that a few top-ups are necessary after a journey but the level eventually stabilises.

As for the cut-in temperature of the low speed fan, some owners have found that it doesn't happen until 101 degrees is reached. You might like to repeat the test and allow it to get a bit hotter and see if yours is one of those.

Simon