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Old 14th November 2020, 14:37   #21
roverbarmy
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Don't forget to remove your watch with the metal bracelet when spannering!

Don't ask me how I know this!
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Old 14th November 2020, 15:29   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chillyphil View Post
Isn't it the amps that kill you?

Combination of the two..



https://wtamu.edu/~cbaird/sq/2013/11...will-kill-you/
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Old 14th November 2020, 23:20   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardmk View Post
Very interesting. Surely was a horrific experience for you. I'd be very surprised if that was due to 12v DC directly. I've inadvertently shorted a battery with a spanner and the welding sparks pretty much scared me to death, but 12v isn't enough to electrocute. I did meet a guy once who shorted around 9000v with a spanner which left him with one arm that was about eight inches long but still alive. It was the current that fried his arm which is a function of voltage and resistance. He was certainly lucky not to be electrocuted. But 12v, there would have to be something else going on there.
Of course, I'm prepared to be proven wrong. Interested in any and all comments.
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Originally Posted by chillyphil View Post
Isn't it the amps that kill you?

My training was summed up in a simple saying, easy to remember.
"It's the volts that jolts...
...But it's the amps that will kill you!"

Simple as that - CCA of a 12v car battery is more than enough if you short it out, Even in the dry i wouldn't bridge one with my hands, let alone in the damp with help of a metal conductor.
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Old 16th November 2020, 20:12   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avulon View Post
"It's the volts that jolts...
...But it's the amps that will kill you!"
The first job I had after Uni was running some very high vacuum equipment. It needed to get down to around 1 micron of mercury pressure, so tiny leaks would stop it working. One way to detect leaks is to buzz the area (it was all glass) with a high voltage wand. These generated several kilovolts and would produce a two inch spark to any metal surface. Any trace of air leaking into the vacuum was ionised by the voltage and you'd see a glowing jet from the 'hole' The interesting thing was you could hold the wand to your finger or palm and get nice Tesla-esk sparking, accompanied by a faint tingle. The current would be a few milliamps, if that, so virtually static electricity.


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Old 16th November 2020, 21:20   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Cut View Post
The first job I had after Uni was running some very high vacuum equipment. It needed to get down to around 1 micron of mercury pressure, so tiny leaks would stop it working. One way to detect leaks is to buzz the area (it was all glass) with a high voltage wand. These generated several kilovolts and would produce a two inch spark to any metal surface. Any trace of air leaking into the vacuum was ionised by the voltage and you'd see a glowing jet from the 'hole' The interesting thing was you could hold the wand to your finger or palm and get nice Tesla-esk sparking, accompanied by a faint tingle. The current would be a few milliamps, if that, so virtually static electricity.


TC
That is very ingenious and also a rather cool job requirement.
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Old 16th November 2020, 21:51   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avulon View Post
My training was summed up in a simple saying, easy to remember.
"It's the volts that jolts...
...But it's the amps that will kill you!"

Simple as that - CCA of a 12v car battery is more than enough if you short it out, Even in the dry i wouldn't bridge one with my hands, let alone in the damp with help of a metal conductor.
Thought this might reassure you.
https://www.metroid.net.au/engineeri...lectric-shock/
Basically you need about 50v or above to drive enough current to kill a person.
Holding a spanner will make no difference to the resistance of your skin( but can increase the capacitance of your connection which is more relevant to AC than DC.)
https://www.recorbatteries.gr/en/can...%20shock%20you.
For more detail. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...tric%20current.
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Old 17th November 2020, 13:05   #27
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Maybe the poor old Frenchman had some problem, or weakness. Chris.S
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Old 18th November 2020, 23:16   #28
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Thank you for the many informed and informative posts. However, I think I'll still exercise due reserve when working with electricity. As mentioned earlier I've had a coupe of avoidable toastings from mains AC leaving me with a much weaker shoulder/elbow and a permanent mild tremor to my right arm/hand (always prompts some additional investigation whenever I meet whichever GP is on duty nowadays). I've no idea what actually did for the far travelled Frenchman (the car was registered in Languedoc) but I can't help but think it was damp/metal/battery-terminals/congenital heart problem(?) related. Mind, I bet it was quick.
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Old 19th November 2020, 09:26   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardmk View Post
Thought this might reassure you.
https://www.metroid.net.au/engineeri...lectric-shock/
Basically you need about 50v or above to drive enough current to kill a person.
Holding a spanner will make no difference to the resistance of your skin( but can increase the capacitance of your connection which is more relevant to AC than DC.)
https://www.recorbatteries.gr/en/can...%20shock%20you.
For more detail. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...tric%20current.

Quote:
As a rough rule of thumb, more than fifty volts is sufficient

Well, that doesn't say that any particular voltage is insufficient. And I'd rather excercise caution than be dead. Especially one anecdotal evidence suggests that there are circumstances where 12v is sufficient.




Quote:
Originally Posted by mileshawk56 View Post
Maybe the poor old Frenchman had some problem, or weakness. Chris.S

Possibly. we can't know now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by oldie View Post
Thank you for the many informed and informative posts. However, I think I'll still exercise due reserve when working with electricity. As mentioned earlier I've had a coupe of avoidable toastings from mains AC leaving me with a much weaker shoulder/elbow and a permanent mild tremor to my right arm/hand (always prompts some additional investigation whenever I meet whichever GP is on duty nowadays). I've no idea what actually did for the far travelled Frenchman (the car was registered in Languedoc) but I can't help but think it was damp/metal/battery-terminals/congenital heart problem(?) related. Mind, I bet it was quick.

Quite right
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Mods/Retrofits:

PCV vortex 'filter'; bluetooth; inline thermostat; reversing sensors; plenum spyhole ; headlamp washers ; Diy mp3 player replacing CD multichanger; FBH with remote; Headlamp washers; black/chrome front grille, rear blind; Xenon projectors
To do:
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Old 29th November 2020, 15:51   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue View Post
A little like this



Thank you for the tip and pic, access to the lights much more straightforward. Refitting the bumpers was a bit of a heave but achieved without visible damage to the wings.
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