Help I can't start! - Page 3

madeupname · 21st October 2021, 16:28

Hi Steve, can't get the concertina air flow piece off cos the slam panel bolts turn but don't unscrew.
I've had a look as best I could and the spade connector is under the unit so I couldn't reach it.
I've decided to remove it and have sent off for a replacement plunger kit. I found your how-to but the piccies aren't working. It sounds like an involved job. I've had the EGR off in the past to clean it so I'm not phased by that. While I'm waiting for the spare plunger etc. to arrive I'll get a hacksaw blade and cut off the air flow unit bolts. I have spares to replace them.

Right then, Thank you Forestgreen for letting me use your thread. I thought it made sense as we both have the same problem. Any other problems I find I'll start my own thread

Adrian.

Arctic · 21st October 2021, 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by madeupname

Hi Steve,

Quote:

can't get the concertina air flow piece off cos the slam panel bolts turn but don't unscrew

.
I've had a look as best I could and the spade connector is under the unit so I couldn't reach it.
I've decided to remove it and have sent off for a replacement plunger kit. I found your how-to but the piccies aren't working. It sounds like an involved job. I've had the EGR off in the past to clean it so I'm not phased by that. While I'm waiting for the spare plunger etc. to arrive I'll get a hacksaw blade and cut off the air flow unit bolts. I have spares to replace them.

Right then, Thank you Forestgreen for letting me use your thread. I thought it made sense as we both have the same problem. Any other problems I find I'll start my own thread

Adrian.

HI Adrian.
You can pop the air duct off each rubber grommet, by pushing downwards with a car door trim removal tool.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265010107...IAAOSwyHNf~Fzm

Once you have the air duct off you can then get some long nosed mole grips on the rubber grommets lock them on and then remove the bolts, throw away the rubber grommets with the brass inserts which is the reason why the metal bolts will not undo in the first place, refit with spires and bolts.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/222863519...Cclp%3A2047675

2

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madeupname · 22nd October 2021, 19:38

Brilliant. Thank you.
I have a spare duct and have been trying to figure out where the rubber well nuts go. What you suggest makes sense. I thought about cutting it off and then grabbing the grommets with pliers, so we're on the same track. I don't need to cut it now.
Thanks again.

Forestgreen · 23rd October 2021, 16:11

The garage checked all the connectors - nothing amiss there. They tried turning the engine - nothing would get it cranking. So yes, borked engine. I tried it this morning with another key - it seems like it tries to do something but just gives me a rapid clunk-clunk-clunk with the dash lights fading on and off at the same time.

I don't know how it could have happened as I wasn't driving it at the time. My wife's car was in for repairs so I let her borrow my Rover for a quick local errand. To be fair she isn't particularly used to driving it as it's almost the only time in ten years of my ownership that she has ever driven it and never before without me. Goodness only knows what happened.

As for replacement engines, would anyone be able to give me any idea what I might be looking at, both cost of refurbished unit (with new belt and water pump obviously) and cost of removal and fitting? If forum rules don't allow costs to be publicly shared but any traders/mechanics, especially in the Birmingham area are willing to message me any estimates that would be most helpful to compare against the cost of a new R75.

As an aside, the viz motor might well need replacement too - do ancillaries come with the new engine? And my cruise control has been temperamental for some while. I have changed the control unit and the cruise relay but it still sometimes doesn't engage when the dash green lighted button is on and I have to stop the car and restart the engine for it to (intermittently) work. Could that potentially also be an engine issue that would be fixed with a new engine?

bsafly · 23rd October 2021, 16:30

Did the garage remove the starter motor and try turning the engine by hand (either by the front pulley nut or using the ring gear), if it still appears seized next on the list would be to remove the auxiliary drive belts and try again.
The engine is quite unlikely to sieze whilst not running.
Quick checks listed above would be my next things on my list to check if it were my car before writing the engine off as seized.

Ian G · 23rd October 2021, 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsafly

Did the garage remove the starter motor and try turning the engine by hand (either by the front pulley nut or using the ring gear), if it still appears seized next on the list would be to remove the auxiliary drive belts and try again.
The engine is quite unlikely to sieze whilst not running.
Quick checks listed above would be my next things on my list to check if it were my car before writing the engine off as seized.

Good point get them to remove the starter I've had a starter jam the flywheel solid on a car before so well worth a check.

planenut · 23rd October 2021, 17:03

I thought you originally explained you had only carried out a short journey, still more doubt that the engine is seized.

Number 6 · 23rd October 2021, 18:13

They tried turning the engine - nothing would get it cranking. So yes, borked engine. I tried it this morning with another key - it seems like it tries to do something but just gives me a rapid clunk-clunk-clunk with the dash lights fading on and off at the............................................... .................................................. ......................To me that sounds like the symptons you get with a flat battery. I would go over the battery and other connections, including the earthing points on the engine and body work.

And also try another known good battery. Batteries of today will just die with out warning.. If it is a flat battery then when it engaged with the starter ring with out enough power to turn the engine over it could have jammed it self on the starter ring and therefore locking the engine.

Forestgreen · 23rd October 2021, 19:28

The car (well, my wife) drove normally a few miles, stopped for a few minutes then she tried to restart and the car wouldn't start. Both the AA (who originally came to try to start the car) and the garage where the car is at the moment checked the battery and it was fine (it's quite new). All the electricals to the starter motor were checked by the garage where the car is now and were said to be fine. The mechanic at the garage tried to turn the engine and could not get it to budge. I have had a flat battery in the past and the clunking sound was totally different and much weaker. The AA chap said it might be the starter and might be a seized engine. The garage think they have ruled out it being a starter problem.

Not being a mechanic myself I don't want to try to teach their grandmothers how to suck eggs but want to ensure nothing obvious is left to try. They are normally very good but have limited experience of the 75. What more should I ask them to investigate if there is any possibility the engine hasn't seized? For instance do I need to ask specifically, have they tried to turn the engine after taking out the starter motor? If it does, presumably the answer is a new starter. If the engine still won't turn after removing the starter, is there anything at all else that might stop the engine turning that they should remove before writing the engine off? Does the car have a flywheel (auto 2.5) and could that jamb etc? Would anything else cause the engine not to move besides something catastrophic happening inside?

bsafly · 23rd October 2021, 19:36

It's extremely unlikely anything catastrophic has happend internally whilst the engine was switched off, much more likely to be jammed starter motor pinion, seen it many times before.
Ask the garage to remove the starter motor and then try turning the engine by hand, if it's still stuck ask them to drop the auxiliary drive belts off and try again, I am almost certain it won't be the engine itself (stranger things have happened, but very rarely!)
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
Paul.

21st October 2021, 16:28	#21
madeupname Posted a thing or two Rover 75 Connie Mk2 1.8 (Mo) Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: Sheffield Posts: 1,531 Thanks: 875 Thanked 335 Times in 289 Posts	Hi Steve, can't get the concertina air flow piece off cos the slam panel bolts turn but don't unscrew. I've had a look as best I could and the spade connector is under the unit so I couldn't reach it. I've decided to remove it and have sent off for a replacement plunger kit. I found your how-to but the piccies aren't working. It sounds like an involved job. I've had the EGR off in the past to clean it so I'm not phased by that. While I'm waiting for the spare plunger etc. to arrive I'll get a hacksaw blade and cut off the air flow unit bolts. I have spares to replace them. Right then, Thank you Forestgreen for letting me use your thread. I thought it made sense as we both have the same problem. Any other problems I find I'll start my own thread Adrian. __________________ Mo was born Tuesday, 22nd June 2004 @ 08:32:41 This vehicle was the 99,307th 75 to run off the production line, out of 112,381 This vehicle was the 5,377th 75 1.8 Connoisseur to be made out of 6,033 This vehicle was the 783rd 75 in Firefrost Red (code: CEV) to be made out of 2,089 Firefrost Red 75s

22nd October 2021, 19:38	#23
madeupname Posted a thing or two Rover 75 Connie Mk2 1.8 (Mo) Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: Sheffield Posts: 1,531 Thanks: 875 Thanked 335 Times in 289 Posts	Brilliant. Thank you. I have a spare duct and have been trying to figure out where the rubber well nuts go. What you suggest makes sense. I thought about cutting it off and then grabbing the grommets with pliers, so we're on the same track. I don't need to cut it now. Thanks again. __________________ Mo was born Tuesday, 22nd June 2004 @ 08:32:41 This vehicle was the 99,307th 75 to run off the production line, out of 112,381 This vehicle was the 5,377th 75 1.8 Connoisseur to be made out of 6,033 This vehicle was the 783rd 75 in Firefrost Red (code: CEV) to be made out of 2,089 Firefrost Red 75s

23rd October 2021, 18:13	#28
Number 6 This is my second home Rover 75 tourer Club CD/Limo Tints Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Meneac Posts: 6,759 Thanks: 5,007 Thanked 1,609 Times in 869 Posts	They tried turning the engine - nothing would get it cranking. So yes, borked engine. I tried it this morning with another key - it seems like it tries to do something but just gives me a rapid clunk-clunk-clunk with the dash lights fading on and off at the............................................... .................................................. ......................To me that sounds like the symptons you get with a flat battery. I would go over the battery and other connections, including the earthing points on the engine and body work. And also try another known good battery. Batteries of today will just die with out warning.. If it is a flat battery then when it engaged with the starter ring with out enough power to turn the engine over it could have jammed it self on the starter ring and therefore locking the engine. __________________ ] "I started out with nothing, and Ive still got most of it left!" Last edited by Number 6; 23rd October 2021 at 18:16..

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23rd October 2021, 16:11	#24
Forestgreen Gets stuck in Rover 75 Connoisseur SE 2.5 V6 saloon Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Birmingham Posts: 770 Thanks: 47 Thanked 105 Times in 54 Posts	The garage checked all the connectors - nothing amiss there. They tried turning the engine - nothing would get it cranking. So yes, borked engine. I tried it this morning with another key - it seems like it tries to do something but just gives me a rapid clunk-clunk-clunk with the dash lights fading on and off at the same time. I don't know how it could have happened as I wasn't driving it at the time. My wife's car was in for repairs so I let her borrow my Rover for a quick local errand. To be fair she isn't particularly used to driving it as it's almost the only time in ten years of my ownership that she has ever driven it and never before without me. Goodness only knows what happened. As for replacement engines, would anyone be able to give me any idea what I might be looking at, both cost of refurbished unit (with new belt and water pump obviously) and cost of removal and fitting? If forum rules don't allow costs to be publicly shared but any traders/mechanics, especially in the Birmingham area are willing to message me any estimates that would be most helpful to compare against the cost of a new R75. As an aside, the viz motor might well need replacement too - do ancillaries come with the new engine? And my cruise control has been temperamental for some while. I have changed the control unit and the cruise relay but it still sometimes doesn't engage when the dash green lighted button is on and I have to stop the car and restart the engine for it to (intermittently) work. Could that potentially also be an engine issue that would be fixed with a new engine?

23rd October 2021, 16:30	#25
bsafly Just going about! Rover 75 CDTi Connie SE Tourer starlight silver and serpents. MG ZT-T 190+ in Raven Black. Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Great Leighs Posts: 468 Thanks: 626 Thanked 167 Times in 110 Posts	Did the garage remove the starter motor and try turning the engine by hand (either by the front pulley nut or using the ring gear), if it still appears seized next on the list would be to remove the auxiliary drive belts and try again. The engine is quite unlikely to sieze whilst not running. Quick checks listed above would be my next things on my list to check if it were my car before writing the engine off as seized.

23rd October 2021, 17:03	#27
planenut Regional Secretary Rover 1.8T Tourer Join Date: May 2007 Location: Heathrow Posts: 6,948 Thanks: 1,551 Thanked 2,036 Times in 1,264 Posts	I thought you originally explained you had only carried out a short journey, still more doubt that the engine is seized.

23rd October 2021, 19:28	#29
Forestgreen Gets stuck in Rover 75 Connoisseur SE 2.5 V6 saloon Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Birmingham Posts: 770 Thanks: 47 Thanked 105 Times in 54 Posts	The car (well, my wife) drove normally a few miles, stopped for a few minutes then she tried to restart and the car wouldn't start. Both the AA (who originally came to try to start the car) and the garage where the car is at the moment checked the battery and it was fine (it's quite new). All the electricals to the starter motor were checked by the garage where the car is now and were said to be fine. The mechanic at the garage tried to turn the engine and could not get it to budge. I have had a flat battery in the past and the clunking sound was totally different and much weaker. The AA chap said it might be the starter and might be a seized engine. The garage think they have ruled out it being a starter problem. Not being a mechanic myself I don't want to try to teach their grandmothers how to suck eggs but want to ensure nothing obvious is left to try. They are normally very good but have limited experience of the 75. What more should I ask them to investigate if there is any possibility the engine hasn't seized? For instance do I need to ask specifically, have they tried to turn the engine after taking out the starter motor? If it does, presumably the answer is a new starter. If the engine still won't turn after removing the starter, is there anything at all else that might stop the engine turning that they should remove before writing the engine off? Does the car have a flywheel (auto 2.5) and could that jamb etc? Would anything else cause the engine not to move besides something catastrophic happening inside?

23rd October 2021, 19:36	#30
bsafly Just going about! Rover 75 CDTi Connie SE Tourer starlight silver and serpents. MG ZT-T 190+ in Raven Black. Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Great Leighs Posts: 468 Thanks: 626 Thanked 167 Times in 110 Posts	It's extremely unlikely anything catastrophic has happend internally whilst the engine was switched off, much more likely to be jammed starter motor pinion, seen it many times before. Ask the garage to remove the starter motor and then try turning the engine by hand, if it's still stuck ask them to drop the auxiliary drive belts off and try again, I am almost certain it won't be the engine itself (stranger things have happened, but very rarely!) Good luck and let us know how it goes. Paul.