London Emissions Zone 2021

[genpk]

Originally Posted by MSS

So, an MP is able to manage by cycling around and using public transport. He does not feel it necessary to own a car. Unless he said that everyone across the country should be doing the same I would not see anything other than a responsible individual in that particular person.

I have found some of your statements in this thread interesting. Perhaps you should be aware of the following facts:

1. Australia is responsible for the highest CO2 production per head on the planet.

2. It is one of the two largest producers and exporters of coal.

I was watching outback truckers last Friday (I think it was Friday night). The drought means that farmers are having water delivered by lorries in order to keep animals alive and carry on farming. The water delivery tanker in this particular programme drove 600km to transport 22000 litres, some of which was lost on the journey due to pipe leakages.

Do you not see such desperation for survival by your countrymen on Australian TV?


PS - with a number of cars including a 2.5L and a 3.0L V6, I don't think anyone could accuse me of being the equivalent of the aforementioned green mp. Yet I find it quite easy to walk when needing to pop into the local shops a mile away rather than take the car, take the park and ride to get into Colchester or Cambridge on the occasion that we visit for a shopping trip. I always park on the outskirts of Ipswich and walk a mile into town rather than queue up for the in-town car parks. None of this takes much effort, it just requires a consideration about the environment.

I still have my pushbike in the garage at sisters who lives near Heathrow in order to get around when visiting. She has never owned a car and sees no need for one given the availability of good public transport.

I guess at times I must be a peanut fringe dweller?

As you state, we do export coal, were the second largest exporter.
Unfortunately the world still needs this comodity to keep the lights on, keep warm etc.It will eventually become less used as other technologies become affordable. Until then what do you suggest?
As you state we are also up there in emissions per head of population but in total world emission we account for than 1 percent .
Unfortunately we have a large country with vast distances to cover and an electric car just wont work at this time here.
Im not sure what your location is but im guessing you can get on your bike and ride a mile down the road and be in another county in 20 minutes or even drive an electric car from one end of the uk to the other.
If you have ever been to Australia you would realise push bikes outside a main city would not cut it.
Even our city centres are spread out so cars are a must have unless you work close to home.
As for peanut fringe dwellers, i dont suggest people using bikes for transport in this catagory, in fact its a good healthy activity, just politicians that are using push bikes then dictating by enacting laws aimed at reinforcing their life style and view on the population.
I guess my main gripe is all these educated idiots come up with these fantastic schemes and try to implement them without any real thought as to how its going to work
As for carting water here, that must have been a couple of years old, on the west coast we have just had the wettest october in 50 years and the temps have been coldest in years.

[MSS]

Originally Posted by trikey

Using public transport is fine, if the infrastructure is there in the first place.

Fine for Boris and his chums to jump on a rented cycle, bus or tube.

What about the rest of the country who don’t have access to decent public transport? We have to use our cars to get to and from work!

Andy - that is a very fair point and one with which I agree.

Equally, this thread was about emissions zones in cities where on the whole access to public transport is reasonable and often excellent. Yet we have people living in these places owning multiple cars per household and driving by choice rather than necessity.

My point about each person considering their lifestyle is a key one - if we cut down pollution in cities and driving predominantly for leisure or out of choice, then those that need the use of cars may actually have a better quality of life and be able to sustain it for longer.

[MSS]

Originally Posted by genpk

............
I guess my main gripe is all these educated idiots come up with these fantastic schemes and try to implement them without any real thought as to how its going to work.........

For me, this gets worse with every post. I like to think that I am educated and I support inner city exclusion/emissions control zones.

[genpk]

Each to there own.
If your happy with these restrictions thats fine but all i can say is these sort of restrictions on how you move around , where you can drive and what you can drive would not go down well here but then again we dont have any real issues with air quality here.
Unfortunately good and bad policies and there are educated idiots out there every day making political decisions every day without any thought of the consequences .
The fact that you have a person that dosnt even own a car making policies that
affect thousands of vehicle owners confounds me

[MSS]

Originally Posted by genpk

..................


Unfortunately good and bad policies and there are educated and uneducated including subject matter ignorant (amongst both categories) idiots out there every day making political decisions every day without any thought of the consequences .
............

I've made a slight correction for you to make one of the key statements more balanced and palatable. As it was, the statement came across as if you had some issue with educated people.

[COLVERT]

Hydrogen has been mooted as an ideal fuel but how about the cost of producing it ??

Is there any other way than electrolysis ??


Steam reforming is a hydrogen production process from natural gas. This method is currently the cheapest source of industrial hydrogen. The process consists of heating the gas to between 700–1100 °C in the presence of steam and a nickel catalyst. The resulting endothermic reaction breaks up the methane molecules and forms carbon monoxide CO and hydrogen H2. The carbon monoxide gas can then be passed with steam over iron oxide or other oxides and undergo a water gas shift reaction to obtain further quantities of H2. The downside to this process is that its byproducts are major atmospheric release of CO2, CO and other greenhouse gases.[6] Depending on the quality of the feedstock (natural gas, rich gases, naphtha, etc.), one ton of hydrogen produced will also produce 9 to 12 tons of CO2, a greenhouse gas that may be captured.

[SCP440]

Just an observation here, when was the thermometer invented? Let say 300 years ago for the sake of argument. How do we know what the temp was before the industrial revolution?

Maybe the temp over the last 300 years was the exception and what we have now is the normal?

[mileshawk56]

You are naughty Ravinder, he said " educated idiots" and education has never been a shield against idiocy. ChrisS.

[Lancpudn]

Originally Posted by genpk

Each to there own.
If your happy with these restrictions thats fine but all i can say is these sort of restrictions on how you move around , where you can drive and what you can drive would not go down well here but then again we dont have any real issues with air quality here.
Unfortunately good and bad policies and there are educated idiots out there every day making political decisions every day without any thought of the consequences .
The fact that you have a person that dosnt even own a car making policies that
affect thousands of vehicle owners confounds me

Some of the bright young people who left university in the last decade or so are now in positions of power with their green agendas, there are now more people over the voting age born post 1980 than pre 1980 in the EU & they have a different idea of how things should turn out. Yeah I know we left the EU but we're intertwined with their emission standards & everything they do affects us in Blighty.





Boris is a keen cyclist & would gladly clear the towns centres & cities of cars. The cycling elite may be coming after our cars https://www.euractiv.com/section/tra...for-your-cars/



They complain that all major decisions regards transport are made from looking through the windscreen of a car instead of other forms of transport & they want to change that.
The governments hands are going to be tied as the climate lawyers (ClientEarth) have just won a 13 year fight for all people to challenge the EU in court over any decisions that break environmental law, Previously only NGO's could do this but the floodgates will open & every man & his dog will challenge all future environmental decisions in the |European courts.

All environmental decisions that are harmful to man or beast or environment are now open to public challenge.

[edwardmk]

Originally Posted by MSS

I think the difference between the sun throwing one of its once in a million years wobblers and our current situation is that we are in danger of killing ourselves and other life forms slowly and painfully over an extended period of time.

Even electric cars will only really solve one problem whilst creating other. The only real solution to our pollution related problems is for people to reflect on their lifestyles.

Perhaps we should just accept that there really is no hope for mankind. This is how I feel having spent a number of days in my waders clearing out rubbish from our local river.

We're on the same page Maninder. That's why it needs a rebrand to get more people to engage with the pollution issue. Climate change is the wrong branding (imho).