Warning! Some V6 engines can be very dangerous in cold weather. Problem can be solved - Page 3

Arctic · 7th February 2012, 02:08

Hi is this a big job or can it be DIY Cleaning the complete breather system, the inside of the rocker covers, clearing the holes, and blowing the breather pipes clean with compressed air, and replace the metal filters is the only solution I am afraid.Arctic.

Jules · 7th February 2012, 07:55

Well as mentioned in post 17 you could keep the throttle body warm using engine heat.
Either by air duct or home made water jacket with an extension from the heater pipes.
I can feel another one of your Arctic upgrades coming on

ceedy · 7th February 2012, 10:13

Had a similar prob with our Porsche 944 auto .. this had the electrickry under the throttle body..

why not on top where gravity won't affect it ??

We had the lower shaft leak and water made the Cruise throw a wobbly ...

Bit of a brown trouser moment in a 200+ bhp !! porsche

robwijnstok · 7th February 2012, 10:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jules

Well as mentioned in post 17 you could keep the throttle body warm using engine heat.
Either by air duct or home made water jacket with an extension from the heater pipes.
I can feel another one of your Arctic upgrades coming on

Problem is water in the throttle body, not the freezing temperature on it's own.
Solving the cause of the water getting into the trottle body is in my view better than a workaround against the effects of the combination of water and freezing temperature.

Not solving the real problem (bad functioning breather system) will still be the cause of a lot of water getting in the inlet manifold, the airbox, and probably into the engine too, and that can't be good...

Prometheus · 8th February 2012, 07:46

Ill tackle this soon myself. Just ordering some parts. New stat kit (getting rid of the kaiser mod). Ordering some gaskets for the rocker covers and some filters.

Parts wize it's not that expensive time wize it will set you back a good few hours if your doing it yourself.

Inlet manifold off plastic + metal bits.
Fuel Rail
create enhough room to remove rocker covers
clean rocker covers/breather pipes.
new gasket
replace everything.

budgetting about 6 to 8 hours.

robwijnstok · 8th February 2012, 10:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prometheus

Ill tackle this soon myself. Just ordering some parts. New stat kit (getting rid of the kaiser mod). Ordering some gaskets for the rocker covers and some filters.

Parts wize it's not that expensive time wize it will set you back a good few hours if your doing it yourself.

Inlet manifold off plastic + metal bits.
Fuel Rail
create enhough room to remove rocker covers
clean rocker covers/breather pipes.
new gasket
replace everything.

budgetting about 6 to 8 hours.

Cleaning the rocker cover inside was 1 hour a piece for me.
Be aware that the rocker cover breather pipes very easy break at the 'T' joint. If the breather pipes are old they will probably break while disconnecting. Handy to have a spare one at the time.

When the Gremlin killing on my car was going on we where too exited and busy, that not enough pictures were taken.

Perhaps it is possible to document your hunt with more pictures than I did so a proper "how to" can be made?

Lots of succes at your hunt...!

sjc · 11th February 2012, 10:56

WARNING !
OK. Guys thanks for this thread, as I've had the problem today, and although I dealt with it easily enough, it would not have been good if someone else was driving, unaware of what was happening.
Started car, temp showing minus 3 degrees. After a couple of miles the temp went down to -5 and then quickly to -8, and we were on a Motorway and set Cruise to which may or may not have been something over 70 leptons.Nice quiet road, no dramas untila car pulled out in the distance so I touched the brakes and the Cruise lights duly went out. Still all fine, until I realised that the car has stayed at the speed and is now driving it self! No amount of pedal playing would free it, but using brakes would slow the car, but not seemingly the revs! As it was a Motorway, and felt I had a bit of control, I carried on until it became a duel carriageway and was able to pull over in a layby.Slowing to a halt, with my foot hard on the brakes, it was obvious that the car was still trying to pull forward,I put it in neutral( it's an Auto) and the revs were stuck at 4000rpm.With my foot hard still on teh brake, I put it in park,and turned teh ignition off. Restarted a couple of times and it was still stuck at 4000rpm, and no amount of blipping the throttle would do it. Flipped the bonnet, and played with the throttle manually, and after a couple of attempts it freed itself, ideld a bit lumpy for a few seconds and then fine.Continued the journey not going over 2500 revs and all fine, as was the same journey on the way back, again keeping the revs at sensible levels.
Looking at the number of occurences,there seems to be a link between anything colder than -5 degrees below and the throttle sticking?
Please all of you, be very careful, it's not a pleasant experience!

sjc · 11th February 2012, 11:07

Mods, can this be put in the general forum where it will be seen by more people please??? Not every one reads the Tech section regularly

James.uk · 11th February 2012, 13:28

Nice write up. Thank you for posting it Rob...

Might be worth putting it in the "How to" section innit...

...

ihoo · 10th January 2016, 16:59

Below temp -20C butterfly in throttle body get so much cold that even idling cannot help - cold air from the intake freezes water, ice and aluminum seizes itself.

Once my v6 threw away oil cap seal from cylinder head (EX camshaft opposite side) because crankcase ventilation failed to blow through both lines (fat and thin) in throttle body...... in this case engine will be destroyed very fast because oil leak from hole very intensive, and warning light can light too late when bearings are already damaged. This bad situation already occured at previous owner, causing rebuild engine (new cylinder heads and crankshaft bearings).

So i had nothing to do except disabling cold air intake totally (which takes air from the wheel) and using heated air under bonnet... i'm not sure that this is 100% solution (our cars have heating pipes with coolant where ventilation pipes insert into throttle body), but i think this will be enough - new holes "look" on engine\radiator side and above transmission and big hot coolant pipes. Two holes are to avoid power restriction.

7th February 2012, 02:08	#21
Arctic Give to Learn Freelander 2 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: West Midlands Posts: 18,717 Thanks: 1,155 Thanked 6,407 Times in 3,874 Posts	Hi is this a big job or can it be DIY Cleaning the complete breather system, the inside of the rocker covers, clearing the holes, and blowing the breather pipes clean with compressed air, and replace the metal filters is the only solution I am afraid.Arctic. __________________ Arctic Givology Learn to Give Everything is Achievable ad altiora tendo. Check out our Nano meet dates http://www.midlandsnanomeets.co.uk/ http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/index.php?thepage=howto " You do the work , we supply the expertise "

7th February 2012, 07:55	#22
Jules This is my second home ZT 260 SE Twilight and 10 other 75 ZT's :O Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Conwy NORTH WALES Posts: 11,094 Thanks: 512 Thanked 1,116 Times in 763 Posts	Well as mentioned in post 17 you could keep the throttle body warm using engine heat. Either by air duct or home made water jacket with an extension from the heater pipes. I can feel another one of your Arctic upgrades coming on __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Newbies do now!! 1. Plenum drains..all 3 or 4 year dependent 2. Cooling fan..All speeds functioning 3. Bonnet cable divider block

7th February 2012, 10:13	#23
ceedy This is my second home All Trophy Blue ,ZT260#50 , ZT CDTI Auto, ZR105+ and 1.8T Firefrost spoiling the Set . Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Nr Sherborne But in Somerset.. Posts: 6,077 Thanks: 916 Thanked 1,214 Times in 768 Posts	Had a similar prob with our Porsche 944 auto .. this had the electrickry under the throttle body.. why not on top where gravity won't affect it ?? We had the lower shaft leak and water made the Cruise throw a wobbly ... Bit of a brown trouser moment in a 200+ bhp !! porsche __________________ The Three Bloo's Wifey's Zr105, MY CDTI & 260 #50 and Number One sons 1.8T in Firefrost When I were a lad Zero to 142 in 10.25 secs at the Pod on my Blown Norton. 210 Kart Champ in 70's

8th February 2012, 07:46	#25
Prometheus Avid contributor MG ZT Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 137 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ill tackle this soon myself. Just ordering some parts. New stat kit (getting rid of the kaiser mod). Ordering some gaskets for the rocker covers and some filters. Parts wize it's not that expensive time wize it will set you back a good few hours if your doing it yourself. Inlet manifold off plastic + metal bits. Fuel Rail create enhough room to remove rocker covers clean rocker covers/breather pipes. new gasket replace everything. budgetting about 6 to 8 hours. __________________ Car info. MG ZT 190 2003

11th February 2012, 10:56	#27
sjc Posted a thing or two MG ZT-T 180 Sports +, 2007 completely restored XJ 4.2 LWB Sovereign,Noble M400,LR Discovery 3 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Little Baddow Posts: 1,315 Thanks: 65 Thanked 148 Times in 70 Posts	WARNING ! OK. Guys thanks for this thread, as I've had the problem today, and although I dealt with it easily enough, it would not have been good if someone else was driving, unaware of what was happening. Started car, temp showing minus 3 degrees. After a couple of miles the temp went down to -5 and then quickly to -8, and we were on a Motorway and set Cruise to which may or may not have been something over 70 leptons.Nice quiet road, no dramas untila car pulled out in the distance so I touched the brakes and the Cruise lights duly went out. Still all fine, until I realised that the car has stayed at the speed and is now driving it self! No amount of pedal playing would free it, but using brakes would slow the car, but not seemingly the revs! As it was a Motorway, and felt I had a bit of control, I carried on until it became a duel carriageway and was able to pull over in a layby.Slowing to a halt, with my foot hard on the brakes, it was obvious that the car was still trying to pull forward,I put it in neutral( it's an Auto) and the revs were stuck at 4000rpm.With my foot hard still on teh brake, I put it in park,and turned teh ignition off. Restarted a couple of times and it was still stuck at 4000rpm, and no amount of blipping the throttle would do it. Flipped the bonnet, and played with the throttle manually, and after a couple of attempts it freed itself, ideld a bit lumpy for a few seconds and then fine.Continued the journey not going over 2500 revs and all fine, as was the same journey on the way back, again keeping the revs at sensible levels. Looking at the number of occurences,there seems to be a link between anything colder than -5 degrees below and the throttle sticking? Please all of you, be very careful, it's not a pleasant experience! __________________ The 75... " It's lovely isn't it ? Makes you wonder why people are obsessed with modern rubbish". Tiff Needell

11th February 2012, 11:07	#28
sjc Posted a thing or two MG ZT-T 180 Sports +, 2007 completely restored XJ 4.2 LWB Sovereign,Noble M400,LR Discovery 3 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Little Baddow Posts: 1,315 Thanks: 65 Thanked 148 Times in 70 Posts	Mods, can this be put in the general forum where it will be seen by more people please??? Not every one reads the Tech section regularly __________________ The 75... " It's lovely isn't it ? Makes you wonder why people are obsessed with modern rubbish". Tiff Needell

11th February 2012, 13:28	#29
James.uk Passed Away 2002 Pale Blue. Rover 75 CDTi Connoisseur auto. 170K miles Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Near the M67. Posts: 14,509 Thanks: 199 Thanked 585 Times in 397 Posts	Nice write up. Thank you for posting it Rob... Might be worth putting it in the "How to" section innit... ...

10th January 2016, 16:59	#30
ihoo Regular poster Rover 75 Join Date: May 2015 Location: Russia Posts: 30 Thanks: 3 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	Below temp -20C butterfly in throttle body get so much cold that even idling cannot help - cold air from the intake freezes water, ice and aluminum seizes itself. Once my v6 threw away oil cap seal from cylinder head (EX camshaft opposite side) because crankcase ventilation failed to blow through both lines (fat and thin) in throttle body...... in this case engine will be destroyed very fast because oil leak from hole very intensive, and warning light can light too late when bearings are already damaged. This bad situation already occured at previous owner, causing rebuild engine (new cylinder heads and crankshaft bearings). So i had nothing to do except disabling cold air intake totally (which takes air from the wheel) and using heated air under bonnet... i'm not sure that this is 100% solution (our cars have heating pipes with coolant where ventilation pipes insert into throttle body), but i think this will be enough - new holes "look" on engine\radiator side and above transmission and big hot coolant pipes. Two holes are to avoid power restriction. __________________ Sorry for my grammar