Timing kit question

[Rsnail]

Hi guys, I have something I cannot help myself out with. Now that I have to replace the timing kit for my 2.0 V6, I want to replace everything, including the oil seals, however, so far, I could only find the camshaft seals (will attach photos below), the part nr is LUC100151/LUC100150L for Land Rover. And besides these ones mentioned above, there are also these parts (still oil seals for the camshafts), should these also be replaced:

- Front Camshaft Oil Seal - Black - LUC100290
- Rear Camshaft Oil Seal - Red - LUC100220
???

I have heard however (not sure), that the crankshaft oil seal (if any) should be replaced also in order to sleep good at night and to not have to take off everything in case it fails in the future. But looking at the engine sketches, couldn't find the related parts, anyone could possibly help here too? Thank you.

[Pete]

I think you should contact DMGRS for the parts you need. They sell a complete set of 4 seals for under £20.

The front/rear description is better stated as:
Front = Water pump end
Rear = Transmission end

I have never had the crankshaft oil seals replaced on any of my KV6 units. I can see the point of doing it for preventative maintenance on a high-mileage engine (and any part has a service life of course), but in the case of an oil seal if it isn't leaking and there is no stated service life I tend to leave things as they are.

[SD1too]

Originally Posted by Rsnail

... I want to replace everything, including the oil seals ...

Hi Galambosi,

It's your choice of course but there's a lot of sense in the old American adage "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". The experience behind this is that when something which is working perfectly well is disturbed, the chances are that difficulties will arise, damage may accidentally be done and costs can get out of hand.

Originally Posted by Rsnail

I could only find the camshaft seals ... the part nr is LUC100151 ...

These are the factory caps which are difficult to fit due to their tightness and poor access. I removed my originals carefully, avoiding damage, and successfully refitted one of them on the LH bank which doesn't leak. The best method I've seen to fit new ones is using a long woodworker's clamp over the length of the head.

Originally Posted by Rsnail

... there are also these parts (still oil seals for the camshafts), should these also be replaced:
- Front Camshaft Oil Seal - Black - LUC100290
- Rear Camshaft Oil Seal - Red - LUC100220
???

No, those don't need replacing unless you have definite evidence of an oil leak. Leave the crankshaft oil seal alone as well. You'll have enough on your plate with the timing belts replacement.

Simon

[bl52krz]

I had my timing belts changed two years ago by Lates. He does not use the black end covers, they sometimes blow out with horrendous results. All I have fitted is an ordinary oil seal.Over two years later, I have had no trouble with any leaks. I still have the ‘proper’ ones in my spares . Lates told me about a few people who had told him that they had the proper ones blow out, and also I have read on this forum about them blowing out.

[SD1too]

Originally Posted by bl52krz

... the black end covers ... I have read on this forum about them blowing out.

The likely explanation for this is improper fitting. The end caps, which also act as seals, are rigid and have to be inserted in perfect alignment. Force has to be applied exactly in the centre of the cap otherwise it will tilt and enter the port at an angle. This procedure is more easily said than done due to insufficient space to apply the required impact accurately. It's possible on the RH bank using levers but the proximity of the air conditioning pipework and power steering reservoir make fitting a new, tough end cap to the LH bank extremely difficult.

There are two solutions to this. One is to fit new caps in seconds using a woodworker's long clamp to squeeze it into place as mentioned in my last post. Obviously this involves obtaining the right tool for the job but the reward is reliability.
The other option is to remove the original cap with due care.I did this using a controlled rotary motion with padding between the jaws of my Vise Grips and the external diameter of the cap. Refitting the originals is significantly easier than attempting the same with new ones so conventional methods can be used.

Four and a half years ago I fitted a new end cap to the RH bank and the original to the LH bank. Neither has leaked oil and neither has blown out. This shows that it can be done successfully.

Simon

[Teflon]

Originally Posted by SD1too

The likely explanation for this is improper fitting...........

Highly unlikely in the case of Lates though Simon. He's ex MG Rover trained and has fitted so many sets of belts it's untrue - some 10 years back he was probably doing at least one set every weekend, often more.

When I first had my belts changed by Lates, he was still using the end caps with no issues, but when I returned 6 years later he had swapped to traditional oil seals. He explained that in the year or so previously, he had started to experience the occasional "blow out", and suspected a possible change in manufacturer as the reason. He said the "blow outs" were rare, but when doing the job on such a regular basis, he couldn't afford to take the chance, as even an infrequent occurrence wold have a negative effect on reputation, as well as the cost of remedial work.

I've had "traditional" seals fitted now for well over 10 years with no issues - just the tiniest amount of oil "misting" over the cam shaft end (enough to keep any rust at bay).

I think if I was doing the job myself, I'd risk using the end caps, as the odds would be in my favour, but if I was running a business and doing the job over and over, I'd do the same as Lates .

[vitesse]

Originally Posted by SD1too

The likely explanation for this is improper fitting.

Simon

Sorry Simon as Teflon has stated it even happens to the experts. Our local MG/Rover mechanic even devised and fitted retaining brackets to every V6 he changed belts on, which was quite a few. Prior to the brackets, one unfortunate owner only got halfway home following a belt change when one of the caps blew and the garage had to pay for and fit a replacement engine.

Blocked breathers plays a major part but also extremes of temperature where water vapour inside the breathers freezes allowing a build-up of crankcase pressure.

I now fit seals to my V6s after reading a post by Lovel.

Keep well