Spring Breakages - Outstanding Issues

rover · 19th December 2008, 20:02

We have seen various threads recently referring to Front Spring Breakage/Tyre Protectors.
In my view this subject is still a grey area with some basic questions remaining unanswered.
1. What was the ongoing solution for vehicles produced post the Recall?

2. What is the role of VOSA in the Recall process.Are they only responsible for documenting the Manufacturers Safety Recall solution or do they have to approve it?
The reason for asking this question is that having obtained RSC00031 Tyre Protector Kit I can see why Rimmers were able to sell these at £3.00 a pair until recently.As the Manufacturer is bearing the cost of the Recall it is in their interest to produce a solution at lowest cost,not necessarily the best solution.Which seems to apply in this case.
Whilst fitting the kit is a sensible precaution I don't feel that fitting a component costing approx £1.00 each is a best solution to a potentially lethal failure.
The Recall leaves members in two camps.Those upto the recall - these cars presumably still have Springs of questionable spec.Fitting the Tyre Protectors only helps deflect a broken spring,it does not address the cause.
Those post the recall - who do not know what action MGR took to resolve the problem.So far we have educated guesses at changed Spring spec & strut redesign,but as far as I am aware these are not confirmed.
The forum has been responsible for generating solutions to known problems & design weaknesses & a wealth of general information,but I think we should go back to square one with this one & attempt to establish the facts.

Departed · 19th December 2008, 20:14

As far as the springs, the problem of breakage is common to many brands and models.

The issue is what happens when the spring breaks, and again, our cars are not the only ones where the consequence is 'not nice' (yes I know that's understating it). Citroen C3s for example fail much sooner, and drop the bumper onto the floor.

The bottom line is: does the protector, no matter what the cost / price is, prevent the nasty outcome? If yes then there needs to be a campaign to make sure evcery car gets them. If no, then what do we do now?

T-Cut · 19th December 2008, 20:34

I'm not 100% convinced that the RSC00031 Protector Kit was actually produced to solve this problem. There are questions about the design I'd like to understand. Why are they not handed? What function does the welded-on plate fulfill? Why is this plate at the front on one side and the rear on the other side? How come earlier struts were pre-drilled to take this fix, even before the recall was made?
As for the root cause, the original recall notice made reference to corrosion as the cause. Anecdotal evidence suggests there's a low temperature factor involved. A recent examination of the fracture on behalf of a member here indicated a low temperature crystalline fault is to blame. Several recent fractures reported have occured in freezing weather when the car was simply parked.
The more you ask, the more questions are thrown up.

TC

Jamie · 19th December 2008, 22:22

Im going to throw another observation into the pot....I have heard of some owners replacing worn/dry strut top bearings...surely if the bearing at the top is stiff and dry then when the steering is turned there a risk of twisting the spring in the strut due to the top being tight?

I do intend fitting the protectors, but I am curious as to whether the bearing contributes to failure?

Its unlikely to be a single cause...more likely to be a combination of factors...lets just list the factors that may contribute and see where that takes us?

Strut top bearing siezure?
Fatigue?
Age?
mileage?
Corrosion?
Temperature?
Manufacturing fault?
Loading for example...is it the cars with the heaviest engines?

David3807 · 20th December 2008, 03:15

Did a very rough scan of old posts over the last two years and appx 17 members reported broken front springs either in specific threads or as a 'mine did as well' post in an existing thread.

All but one were R75s. The odd one was a ZT260 at 10k miles which I have ignored for this post.

No Tourers were involved in the remaining 16.

8 were diesels, 4 2.5 KV6, 2 2.00 KV6, 2 Not known

I was able to establish registration year in 13 cases. 2 were 2003, 1 was 1999 and 10 were 2000 and 2001.

Not having VIN numbers I can not say if the cars fell within the range specified for the recalls and only a small number of posts mentioned the fact.

Mileage was only mentioned in 9 cases and varied a great deal. The highest mileage was 115k (the 1999 car KV6 2.00) and the lowest was 31k (Diesel 2003 Car). One was at 54k and the rest were all in the range 60 to 90k.

If anyone does comment on this post please remember that the above was extracted pretty quickly from posts and I may have missed some reports where the thread headings did not mention springs. Please also take account of the lack of detail about the cars, mileages etc in the posts.

However from this quick look if I were driving a 75 saloon of whatever engine variety manufactured up to and including 2001 I would be having a good look at the front springs to see if the Spring Retention Devices had been fitted. If they are not, which is certainly possible as there are at least two cars in this group where the VIN numbers fell within the recall but were not so fitted (my own and Keiths), THEN I WOULD GET THEM FITTED AS A MATTER OF URGENCY.

Jamie · 20th December 2008, 10:38

Id say that was pretty conclusive...not black and white but nevertheless it seems to tie in with the detail of the models affected in the factory recall.

jeeringtowser · 20th December 2008, 16:55

Does anyone have a part number for Spring Retention Devices?

stocktake · 20th December 2008, 16:58

Think its this for a pair

RSC000131

£8:63 inc Vat

David3807 · 20th December 2008, 17:40

£2.65 + VAT if you go to an X Part dealer.

Rimmers price would appear to have increased a little

Find an X Part dealer with the Spring Retention Device in stock:

http://www.thepart.com/en/search/

Departed · 21st December 2008, 11:53

The 'fixing holes' aren't fixing holes, but drain holes to stop build up of water, or maybe jigging holes.

As far as why they aren't handed, you'll probably find the springs fit in a way that means the likely break point is at the front on one side and the rear on the other, bearing in mind the struts aren't handed either and the end of the spring locates in a particular way in the spring pan.

19th December 2008, 20:02	#1
rover Loves to post Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Staffs/Derbyshire Border Posts: 285 Thanks: 19 Thanked 29 Times in 14 Posts	Spring Breakages - Outstanding Issues We have seen various threads recently referring to Front Spring Breakage/Tyre Protectors. In my view this subject is still a grey area with some basic questions remaining unanswered. 1. What was the ongoing solution for vehicles produced post the Recall? 2. What is the role of VOSA in the Recall process.Are they only responsible for documenting the Manufacturers Safety Recall solution or do they have to approve it? The reason for asking this question is that having obtained RSC00031 Tyre Protector Kit I can see why Rimmers were able to sell these at £3.00 a pair until recently.As the Manufacturer is bearing the cost of the Recall it is in their interest to produce a solution at lowest cost,not necessarily the best solution.Which seems to apply in this case. Whilst fitting the kit is a sensible precaution I don't feel that fitting a component costing approx £1.00 each is a best solution to a potentially lethal failure. The Recall leaves members in two camps.Those upto the recall - these cars presumably still have Springs of questionable spec.Fitting the Tyre Protectors only helps deflect a broken spring,it does not address the cause. Those post the recall - who do not know what action MGR took to resolve the problem.So far we have educated guesses at changed Spring spec & strut redesign,but as far as I am aware these are not confirmed. The forum has been responsible for generating solutions to known problems & design weaknesses & a wealth of general information,but I think we should go back to square one with this one & attempt to establish the facts.

19th December 2008, 22:22	#4
Jamie Posted a thing or two In Limbo Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Cheshire Posts: 1,685 Thanks: 4 Thanked 12 Times in 6 Posts	Im going to throw another observation into the pot....I have heard of some owners replacing worn/dry strut top bearings...surely if the bearing at the top is stiff and dry then when the steering is turned there a risk of twisting the spring in the strut due to the top being tight? I do intend fitting the protectors, but I am curious as to whether the bearing contributes to failure? Its unlikely to be a single cause...more likely to be a combination of factors...lets just list the factors that may contribute and see where that takes us? Strut top bearing siezure? Fatigue? Age? mileage? Corrosion? Temperature? Manufacturing fault? Loading for example...is it the cars with the heaviest engines? __________________ Finally given up trying to buy the last new rover V8 from Bristol, 2 years of haggling got me nowhere! Last edited by Jamie; 20th December 2008 at 10:35..

20th December 2008, 10:38	#6
Jamie Posted a thing or two In Limbo Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Cheshire Posts: 1,685 Thanks: 4 Thanked 12 Times in 6 Posts	Id say that was pretty conclusive...not black and white but nevertheless it seems to tie in with the detail of the models affected in the factory recall. __________________ Finally given up trying to buy the last new rover V8 from Bristol, 2 years of haggling got me nowhere!

20th December 2008, 16:55	#7
jeeringtowser Regular poster mini One 1.6D Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Launceston, Cornwall Posts: 87 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Part Number. Does anyone have a part number for Spring Retention Devices?

20th December 2008, 16:58	#8
stocktake Vis Whiz Rover 75 2.5 auto Saloon Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: LEEDS Posts: 20,591 Thanks: 2,057 Thanked 3,056 Times in 1,621 Posts	Think its this for a pair RSC000131 £8:63 inc Vat __________________ Dave... Lost a few stones and a Gall Bladder and part of a bile duct and all of my dignity in the suppository incident Last edited by stocktake; 20th December 2008 at 17:01..

19th December 2008, 20:14	#2
Departed Retired -- Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: -- Posts: 3,785 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	As far as the springs, the problem of breakage is common to many brands and models. The issue is what happens when the spring breaks, and again, our cars are not the only ones where the consequence is 'not nice' (yes I know that's understating it). Citroen C3s for example fail much sooner, and drop the bumper onto the floor. The bottom line is: does the protector, no matter what the cost / price is, prevent the nasty outcome? If yes then there needs to be a campaign to make sure evcery car gets them. If no, then what do we do now?

19th December 2008, 20:34	#3
T-Cut This is my second home Rover75 and Mreg Corsa. Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Sumweer onat mote o'dust (Sagin) Posts: 21,753 Thanks: 341 Thanked 3,660 Times in 2,924 Posts	I'm not 100% convinced that the RSC00031 Protector Kit was actually produced to solve this problem. There are questions about the design I'd like to understand. Why are they not handed? What function does the welded-on plate fulfill? Why is this plate at the front on one side and the rear on the other side? How come earlier struts were pre-drilled to take this fix, even before the recall was made? As for the root cause, the original recall notice made reference to corrosion as the cause. Anecdotal evidence suggests there's a low temperature factor involved. A recent examination of the fracture on behalf of a member here indicated a low temperature crystalline fault is to blame. Several recent fractures reported have occured in freezing weather when the car was simply parked. The more you ask, the more questions are thrown up. TC

20th December 2008, 03:15	#5
David3807 Posted a thing or two 2002 R75 Conn SE 2.5l Auto Tourer, 2001 R75 Conn SE 2.5 Auto Saloon Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Gravesend Posts: 1,897 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Did a very rough scan of old posts over the last two years and appx 17 members reported broken front springs either in specific threads or as a 'mine did as well' post in an existing thread. All but one were R75s. The odd one was a ZT260 at 10k miles which I have ignored for this post. No Tourers were involved in the remaining 16. 8 were diesels, 4 2.5 KV6, 2 2.00 KV6, 2 Not known I was able to establish registration year in 13 cases. 2 were 2003, 1 was 1999 and 10 were 2000 and 2001. Not having VIN numbers I can not say if the cars fell within the range specified for the recalls and only a small number of posts mentioned the fact. Mileage was only mentioned in 9 cases and varied a great deal. The highest mileage was 115k (the 1999 car KV6 2.00) and the lowest was 31k (Diesel 2003 Car). One was at 54k and the rest were all in the range 60 to 90k. If anyone does comment on this post please remember that the above was extracted pretty quickly from posts and I may have missed some reports where the thread headings did not mention springs. Please also take account of the lack of detail about the cars, mileages etc in the posts. However from this quick look if I were driving a 75 saloon of whatever engine variety manufactured up to and including 2001 I would be having a good look at the front springs to see if the Spring Retention Devices had been fitted. If they are not, which is certainly possible as there are at least two cars in this group where the VIN numbers fell within the recall but were not so fitted (my own and Keiths), THEN I WOULD GET THEM FITTED AS A MATTER OF URGENCY.

20th December 2008, 17:40	#9
David3807 Posted a thing or two 2002 R75 Conn SE 2.5l Auto Tourer, 2001 R75 Conn SE 2.5 Auto Saloon Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Gravesend Posts: 1,897 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	£2.65 + VAT if you go to an X Part dealer. Rimmers price would appear to have increased a little Find an X Part dealer with the Spring Retention Device in stock: http://www.thepart.com/en/search/

21st December 2008, 11:53	#10
Departed Retired -- Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: -- Posts: 3,785 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	The 'fixing holes' aren't fixing holes, but drain holes to stop build up of water, or maybe jigging holes. As far as why they aren't handed, you'll probably find the springs fit in a way that means the likely break point is at the front on one side and the rear on the other, bearing in mind the struts aren't handed either and the end of the spring locates in a particular way in the spring pan.